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Texas man SHoots Burglars

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SO I heard this 911 call on my way into work this morning. What do you guys think? Do you Support Joe Horn or do you think what he did as wrong?

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/national/main3517564.shtml?source=mostpop_story

 

CBS) The 911 call came from a Pasadena, Tex., resident, who alerted police to two burglary suspects on a neighbor's property. Before he hung up, two men were dead by his hand.

 

Joe Horn, 61, told the dispatcher what he intended to do: Walk out his front door with a shotgun.

 

"I've got a shotgun," Horn said, according to a tape of the 911 call. "Do you want me to stop them?"

 

"Nope, don't do that - ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?" the dispatcher responded.

 

"Hurry up man, catch these guys, will you? 'Cause I'm ain't gonna let 'em go, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let 'em get away with this ----."

 

Shortly after, Horn said he sees one suspect was standing in front of his house, looking at it from the street.

 

"I don’t know if they’re armed or not. I know they got a crowbar 'cause that's what they broke the windows with. ... Man, this is scary, I can't believe this is happening in this neighborhood."

 

He gets more agitated. The dispatcher asks if he can see the suspects but they had retreated into the target's house, out of view: "I can go out the front [to look], but if I go out the front I'm bringing my shotgun with me, I swear to God. I am not gonna let 'em get away with this, I can't take a chance on getting killed over this, OK? I'm gonna shoot, I'm gonna shoot."

 

"Stay inside the house and don’t go out there, OK?" the dispatcher said. "I know you're pissed off, I know what you're feeling, but it's not worth shooting somebody over this, OK?"

 

"I don’t want to," Horn said, "but I mean if I go out there, you know, to see what the hell is going on, what choice am I gonna have?

 

"No, I don’t want you to go out there, I just asked if you could see anything out there."

 

The dispatcher asks if a vehicle could be seen; Horn said no. The dispatcher again says Horn should stay inside the house.

 

Almost five minutes into the call, police had not arrived.

 

"I can’t see if [the suspects are] getting away or not," Horn said.

 

Horn told the dispatcher that he doesn’t know the neighbors well, unlike those living on the other side of his home. "I can assure you if it had been their house, I would have already done something, because I know them very well," he said.

Dispatcher: "I want you to listen to me carefully, OK?"

 

Horn: "Yes?"

 

Dispatcher: "I got ultras coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house. And I don't want you to have that gun in your hand when those officers are poking around out there."

 

Horn: "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it."

 

Dispatcher: "I understand."

 

Horn: "I have a right to protect myself ..."

 

Dispatcher: "I'm ..."

 

Horn: "And a shotgun is a legal weapon, it's not an illegal weapon."

 

Dispatcher: "No, it's not, I'm not saying that, I'm just not wanting you to ..."

 

Horn: "OK, he's coming out the window right now, I gotta go, buddy. I'm sorry, but he's coming out the window. "

 

Dispatcher: "No, don't, don't go out the door, Mister Horn. Mister Horn..."

 

Horn: "They just stole something, I'm going out to look for 'em, I'm sorry, I ain't letting them get away with this ----. They stole something, they got a bag of stuff. I'm doing it!"

 

Dispatcher: "Mister, do not go outside the house."

 

Horn: "I'm sorry, this ain't right, buddy."

 

Dispatcher: "You gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun, I don't care what you think."

 

Horn: "You wanna make a bet?"

 

Dispatcher: "Stay in the house."

 

Horn: "There, one of them's getting away!

 

Dispatcher: "That's alright, property's not something worth killing someone over. OK? Don't go out the house, don't be shooting nobody. I know you're pissed and you're frustrated but don't do it."

 

Horn: "They got a bag of loot."

 

Dispatcher: "OK. How big is the bag?" He then talks off, relaying the information.

 

Dispatcher: "Which way are they going?"

 

Horn: "I can't ... I'm going outside. I'll find out."

 

Dispatcher: "I don't want you going outside, Mister..."

 

Horn: "Well, here it goes buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

 

Dispatcher: "Don't go outside."

On the tape of the 911 call, the shotgun can be heard being cocked and Horn can be heard going outside and confronting someone.

 

"Boom! You're dead!" he shouts. A loud bang is heard, then a shotgun being cocked and fired again, and then again.

 

Then Horn is back on the phone:

"Get the law over here quick. I've now, get, one of them's in the front yard over there, he's down, he almost run down the street. I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice! ... Get somebody over here quick, man."

 

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, are you out there right now?"

 

Horn: "No, I am inside the house, I went back in the house. Man, they come right in my yard, I didn't know what the --- they was gonna do, I shot 'em, OK?"

 

Dispatcher: "Did you shoot somebody?

 

Horn: "Yes, I did, the cops are here right now."

 

Dispatcher: "Where are you right now?"

 

Horn: "I'm inside the house. ..."

 

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, put that gun down before you shoot an officer of mine. I've got several officers out there without uniforms on."

 

Horn: "I am in the front yard right now. I am ..."

 

Dispatcher: "Put that gun down! There's officers out there without uniforms on. Do not shoot anybody else, do you understand me? I've got police out there..."

 

Horn: "I understand, I understand. I am out in the front yard waving my hand right now."

 

Dispatcher: "You don't have a gun with you, do you?

 

Horn: "No, no, no."

 

Dispatcher: "You see a uniformed officer? Now lay down on the ground and don't do nothing else."

 

Yelling is heard.

 

Dispatcher: "Lay down on the ground, Mister Horn. Do what the officers tell you to do right now."

Two days later, Horn released a statement through an attorney.

 

“The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life," it said. "My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased.â€

 

The identities of the men killed were released Friday.

 

They are Miguel Antonio Dejesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30. Official records show that each of them had a prior arrest in Harris County for drug offenses.

 

The men were reportedly shot at a distance of less than 15 feet.

 

A woman who lives nearby who asked not to be identified told CBS News affiliate KHOU correspondent Rucks Russell that she always saw Horn as a grandfather figure. "He is the guardian of the neighborhood," she said. "He takes care of all our kids. If we ever need anything, we call him.â€

 

But according to Tom Lambright, Horn’s attorney and a friend for more than four decades, he’s the one in need now. “He just needs everyone to know he’s not a villain, he’s not a bad guy,†Lambright said.

 

He went on to say that Horn voluntarily gave an extensive video statement to police immediately following the shooting.

 

Horn was not taken into custody after the shooting. A Harris County grand jury will decide if charges are to be filed.

 

Lambright says Horn acted in complete and total self defense and has nothing to hide.

 

Local opinion has been passionate on both sides of the shooting.

 

One letter to the Houston Chronicle said, "He didn't shoot them in the legs, to make sure they did not run away, or hold them at gunpoint until police arrived. No, he was judge, jury and executioner."

 

Another letter writer praised Horn, saying, "Where does the line form to pin a medal on Joe Horn? I want to get in line." Another wrote, "Let's get rid of the police force and just hire Joe Horn!"

 

Support for Horn was also running about 2-1 in an online survey of readers on the KHOU Web site.

 

The incident may prove a test for a new law recently passed in Texas which expands the right of citizens to use deadly force.

 

Under Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

 

But the legislator who authored the "castle doctrine" bill told the Chronicle it was never intended to apply to a neighbor's property, to prompt a "'Law West of the Pecos' mentality or action," said Republican Sen. Jeff Wentworth. "You're supposed to be able to defend your own home, your own family, in your house, your place of business or your motor vehicle."

 

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Guest [APC]Swifthawk

I think the guy was in the wrong, the dispatcher was right here. Although it's not right for him to watch them steal his neigbors property, he sort of instigated the shooting by confronting them instead of staying in his own home and waiting for police. I don't care if it takes the cops five minutes to get there (while I think this may have been a bit exaggerated), you don't just waltz out your front door with a shotgun and confront burglars when you have a dispatcher on the telephone telling you what to do.

 

I think Horn's intent wasn't to just stop them but to kill them. He could have handled the situation a million different ways. I'd like to know if the people living in the house being robbed were home at the time and what else was going on in the neighborhood. I'm in complete support of using a weapon to defend YOUR OWN HOME, FAMILY & PROPERTY.. but to just tell a dispatcher that you're going to go out and kill a man because you "can't let them get away" is a bit insane.

 

I don't know.. I think if the families of these guys have a good enough lawyer they may have something here. The laws changed sept. 1st, and he killed them on HIS property (assumingly so), but were they posing a direct threat to him? Or did they enter his property because he went out and confronted them? Too many gray areas.. I find it funny that he claims one of them stood on the street and looked at his house, and then went back to the neighbors and oontinued to fill a big bag of loot.

 

Very sketchy.

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This is my take...

 

He went out there looking for trouble and he had malicious intent. Sure he feels the need to be a neighborhood watchman or whatever he wants to be called, but he shot the men and not 30 seconds later did the police arrive. Would the criminals really have been able to flee that fast? This statement here is the problem with his actions:

 

Horn: "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it."

 

He blatantly lets the dispatcher know he is intending to use this law or abuse in this case. The law was NOT made for someone to go seeking out people who were not in his house or presenting any immediate danger to his person. These are the kind of things that make people say "Oh that is why the 2nd amendment should be changed and guns should be banned." I'll be damned if my right to bear arms is infringed upon because of some wackjob who felt he had to shoot to KILL when the criminals were unarmed with any type of gun or lethal force.

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Guest [APC]Swifthawk

See smoke.. you and I use guns to kill (and I'll quote Rover101 here) "poor defenseless deer", but down in Texas people use guns to kill poor, crobar yielding robbers, lol!

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Guest H.A.V.0.C

Well I live in Texas, and I'm a firm believer of take care of "you and your's" to me the neighbors as he stated that "he doesn't even really know" In my opinion the neighbors are NOT considered as a "you and your's"(unless they are your family) but its plain to see, that this guy just wanted to use his shotgun and somehow legally shoot someone.

 

He was just wanting & waiting for the dispatcher to give him the green light, and pump himself up at the same time, when he did NOT tell him what he wanted to hear, he took the matter into his own hands. Hell.... he even cocked the gun on the phone, then proceeded to go confront them. "confront" thats a mild word for what he did, he simply opened the door and said BAM your dead and shot! and killed both men.

 

He didn't even try and hold them prisoner, under gun point until the police got there, he simply shot in cold blood. The only warning the got was "BAM YOUR DEAD"

 

Now I'm not saying what the burgles did was right, in no form what so ever! but who made him judge, jury, and executioner? He killed 2 people over a few items! Man I will say this, from what I heard on the video, that man sounds like he has been itching for a long time to use that shotgun......Well he was finally able to.....and now 2 people are dead, and he is in jail writing letter stating his prayers are with the deceased and their families.

 

Thats lawyer guided talk for "show some remorse"

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I will make this short and sweet. lol. Was he wrong Yes(in the eyes of the law), but if it was your home being vandalized would u still feel the same way? I know u say I have insurance as do most of us, but is everything in your house replaceable, probably not. I also live in Texas and I hope that I would never placed in that situation to have to make that choice. Also, the burglars days were numbered anyway, everytime those idiots broke into someone's home that ran the risk of getting their ass handed to them. Unfortunately, they didn't factor in the fact that some neighbors are CRAZY.........lol. "BOOM, you're dead" Don't fukk around in TEXAS ;D

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I think the biggest issue is that this could have been prevented. Why was the response time so long? My dad is a retired commander, I understand that they cannot be everywhere all the time BUT you have a 911 emergency with a guy with a shotgun getting ready to be a vigilantly and there are no cops to be found? I think that needs to be looked in to more. What kind of response time if it was a school shooting? These are the questions I would be asking.

 

He was wrong, he should have reported everything he saw to the dispatcher and stayed inside. If they went in to his house that would have been a different story.

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yeah i didn't view the video at first...now that I hear the tone of voice.....he may have been able to do somethings differently. But damn guys...none break into another's house...mainly you guys in Texas.

 

If you need money that bad, just send tow a message...he will support you and your family Financially. ;)

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Well I think everyone would feel differently if kids or someone was at home......but why give them the chance to do so...I say screw'm...."YOU BUY THE TICKET, YOU TAKE THE RIDE, NO MATTER WHERE IT BRINGS YOU"...

 

we are way to easy on criminals here.......

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Guest OMNI

Good responses guys. I gotta say though, I'm a bit surprised to see so many people against the actions of Mr. Horn, particularly those of you who live in Texas. I agree with most of all of your points here. Yes he did seem to be looking to use that gun, he did seem like he was fed up and agitated. But apparently this type of feeling has been common in Texas as of late and led to the recent changes in the law, of which Mr. Horn refers to in the call. The law that changed, basically allows people to use deadly force over stolen property, for not only their own property, but of their neighbors as well.....IF and I stress IF the neighboors ask to have them watch their house. The law also only applies at night. Mr. Horn was neither asked by his neighboors to watch their house nor was it night time. That will leave him with a "self-defense"...umm, defense if, he is even charged with anything. Last thing, as he walks out of his house the two burglars are heading towards him in HIS yard...apparently. Now, are you guys sure of his next words? Is it possible he says, "Move, and your dead"? Then they move towards him in an aggressive manner?

 

I don't know, part of me says he shouldn't have done anything, then a stronger voice in my head says, fuck 'em....if you don't want to get shot, then WORK HARD for your money and don't steal the shit that other people WORKED HARD to EARN. If you do illegal shit, then bad stuff is going to happen to you too. It's a little thing called karma.

 

 

-Omni

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all i can say is

let a mothafucka try to get in my house or my neigbors house...i'll bust their ass after my dogge rips their heads off...as i was younger i did all kinds of shit and i meen all kinds of shit and i knew the consiquenses of my actions...those dudes should have token the fuck off when they seen some one they were obviously fucking retards and who knows they cpould have done this shit before and some one could have been home and killed some one and never got cought or maybe this is their first crime....either way the guys shouldnt have killed the men but he did and he had the right as soon as they steped on his property, was he next, did they have a gun..you never know ...shoot first ask questions later...

 

with that said..

it is too damn bad that the men died......

\

do the crime -pay the time

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Yep, there is no reason for what that guy did. Now, if the guys were threatening someones life, or hand hurt someone, or even brandishing a gun, by all means gun em down. But there really was no reason for him to do what he did.

 

The guy didn't even ask the burglers to stop, or drop what they had. NOTHING. He desereves punishment for taking their lives.

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_SEQUOYAH ]

Yep, there is no reason for what that guy did. Now, if the guys were threatening someones life, or hand hurt someone, or even brandishing a gun, by all means gun em down. But there really was no reason for him to do what he did.

 

The guy didn't even ask the burglers to stop, or drop what they had. NOTHING. He desereves punishment for taking their lives.

all i could think about when i read the quote was: sean taylor.

i know they are way different situation but the old man didnt know if they would maybe come back and kill the witness later or if they might even been goin to the next house and maybe come in when two little kids were home a;one being babysitted by their twelve year old sister while the mother worked her second job....allright i'll shut up....... :-X

 

but you never know

 

what people should be saying is those guys shouldnt have been where they were robbing shit......and then poor old joe horn woldnt have never grabbed the peace-maker

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I do not think that he should of shoot them and I do not think he should be prosecuted. From my understanding of this new law, you can use deadly force against those with stolen goods? On your property or others? I see that he is within the boundaries of the law. The police also need to be faster... Kinda sad that they would take 5+ minutes to get the residence...

 

Though, if you put your place in Mr. Horn's. I think I might be scared enough, or have the feeling that they were gonna hit his house next, to shoot them down. All in all, their deaths could of been prevented if the Police were quicker to the scene.

 

When I was reading the dialogue between Mr. Horn and the dispatcher, I was imagining it to be like a intense argument. I then listened to the audio and the dispatcher sounded kinda relaxed... I don't know.. I just thought the dispatcher sounded weird... Lol...

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I do not think that he should of shoot them and I do not think he should be prosecuted. From my understanding of this new law, you can use deadly force against those with stolen goods? On your property or others? I see that he is within the boundaries of the law. The police also need to be faster... Kinda sad that they would take 5+ minutes to get the residence...

 

Though, if you put your place in Mr. Horn's. I think I might be scared enough, or have the feeling that they were gonna hit his house next, to shoot them down. All in all, their deaths could of been prevented if the Police were quicker to the scene.

When I was reading the dialogue between Mr. Horn and the dispatcher, I was imagining it to be like a intense argument. I then listened to the audio and the dispatcher sounded kinda relaxed... I don't know.. I just thought the dispatcher sounded weird... Lol...

all in all. dont blame the cops....the guys shoundnt have been stealing other peoples shit

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I do not think that he should of shoot them and I do not think he should be prosecuted. From my understanding of this new law, you can use deadly force against those with stolen goods? On your property or others? I see that he is within the boundaries of the law. The police also need to be faster... Kinda sad that they would take 5+ minutes to get the residence...

 

Though, if you put your place in Mr. Horn's. I think I might be scared enough, or have the feeling that they were gonna hit his house next, to shoot them down. All in all, their deaths could of been prevented if the Police were quicker to the scene.

When I was reading the dialogue between Mr. Horn and the dispatcher, I was imagining it to be like a intense argument. I then listened to the audio and the dispatcher sounded kinda relaxed... I don't know.. I just thought the dispatcher sounded weird... Lol...

all in all. dont blame the cops....the guys shoundnt have been stealing other peoples shit

 

Yeah, of course they shouldn't of been stealing...

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Guest [iLL] Andawg

bottom line is you dont know what you would do till you are in the situation ;D

 

I saw on a post some one say "You should look after you and yours" Isn't that what "neighbor" is, a part of "yours"? I just hope I have neighbors like Mr. Horn. I know I would be, I know what I would do, and I don't live in a state where I can get away with that. But just like the slap they'd get if, and this a huge "IF" they get caught, I would get the same. Fuck 'em, they're criminals.

 

People complain about vigilantes, and that they are so wrong. Maybe it's time for people to act for themselves. I hear all the time people blaming someone else for the problem they created. Mr. Horn is just a man "helping" the police out. Helping his neighbors out, helping You out.

 

Just a thought I was having also....what if the neighbors were home, and they had been injured and all the other things you can imagine? What if Mr. Horn hadn't seen anything, the burglars could have done worse and got away. Never to be caught.

 

 

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