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Guest [RiP] Medux

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Guest [RiP] Medux

please expand on ur reasons if u could plz

 

im actually a leaf fan but they SUCK SOOO MUCH its hard 2 like so im a penguins fan when they are suckin lol

 

 

also a huge crosby fan

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Guest M16Assassin

This is my shit right here. I've played and now coach my whole life. This is a hard question for me to answer. But the question is who is BETTER so I have to say Ovechkin. I can't stand the guy but the stats speak for themselves. When you look past the amount of goals he has scored you see he also has a lot of assists, and before they picked up Federov 2 weeks ago he really didn't have a whole lot of talent around him. I think he carries the Caps and I think he is a lot like Lebron James in the fact that he makes the players around him better. That being said I think he is a piece of shit. He is a cocky prick who plays dirty and gets away with a lot of it because of what he represents.

 

I like Crosby better and don't forget before his injury Crosby did lead the league in points. But I think he has more talent around him. I think he is by far a better passer and leader but as a whole Ovechkin is probably better.

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I think it depends on what you look at. Stats why it is the homo in wash. IF it's a team player that makes your team better you go with Crosby. I can't stand the home in wash so I'm a little bias. Did anyone see the game winner Crosby had when they played each other a few weekends ago?? Crosby just but it to the front of the net and the Caps player put it in his own goal. ;D ;D That was great!!!! ;D ;D The homo was so pissed. ;D ;D

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Guest [RiP] Medux

yes i love 2 argue about this topic becuz I NEVER get a good arguement !! evver i always get Crosby dosnt hit or isnt physcial enouggh...yeah cuz waynee gretzky was right ? and he certainly hasnt done much in hcokey ? lol

 

also alot of ppl choose ovechkin over crosby just becuz the fact Ovechkin gets more goals..well look at the SHOOTING stat lol he gets like 400 shots a season ..and who does crosby really have around him that is amazing (malkin plays on a differnt line) Stall isnt overlly great just an amazing defensive player

 

ALSO i think crosby has better dangles man he splits like 2 ppl on D ALLL THE TIME its so beautiful 2 watch

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Ovechkin all day every day. Scores and hits. Definition of a power forward except he also has speed and posseses amazing hands. People dont need to defend him, he defends himself. As for Crosby, i hate him...but hes a damn good player. I hate the fact that if you touch him, the other 4 guys on the ice will come after you, even if its a clean hit. He very much gets the Gretzky treatmeat.

 

If you ask who I want to start a franchise with, You work from the Goal out, to D-men, to down the middle with Centers. But If i have the first 2 components, you go with the franchise center.

 

If you ask me to choose 1 player for 1 game, I take Ovechkin.

 

Heres another discussion.

 

Does anybody think Players pre 90's would play the way they did nowadays ? I say hell no. 176 pound gretzy would get eaten alive in todays game. Mike Bossy of my NY Islanders aka best PURE GOAL SCORER of all time, would get knocked around like a girl. The only guy I think that would have fit right in is SUPER MARIO. Big at 6'4, skinny when he came in the league, body evolved into the 90's-2000's game and was the same SUPER MARIO.

 

Man has evolved so much, players are bigger and stronger and have serious work ethics. I always say this to people in discussion, I'll take a player in the world of sports today over a player in the world of sports of the past.

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Guest [RiP] Medux

OK well would u be saying that if crosby had the lead in points right now ?? the only reason he isnt is cause he was hurt for like 25 games (i think it might be more just guessing on that) .. but that besdies the point cause ovechkin cant even take his team to the playoffs. Also you cant use the excuse he has no team around him its the NHL everyone is more the capiable of scoring or contributing to the team..not saying that everyone on washington is some crazy goal scoer or somthing but yeah.. they actually do have some talent for instance ..Viktor Kozlov,Nicklas Backstrom,Steve Eminger, Tom poti...i think washignton is jsut the same as penguisn other then Malkin Ryan Whitney and Stall..everyone esle is pretty garbage on the penguins BUT with the type of player crosby is he jsut makes people look that much better have you seen some of his PASSES?? god they are so amazing..and if you ever see ovechkin pass ..well take a picture cause you will prob never see that happen again. AND Im sorry but if you say crosby dosnt defend himself you are crazy..remmber the fight he was in? he takes more abuse and beatings from slashing and hacking then anyone everyone goes after him trying to startle him because they no what emotion he brings to the ice and how angry he gets when they do, bad idea normally it results in him getting 5 points or so.

 

 

 

 

disagree in sum sense....look at mario lemuix he played pre 90's and gretzkey.messier also played pre 90's he also played after the 90's they both have MVPS and many stanley cups .. those 2 right there can play in ANY generation they were so skilled that i belive they will cahgne there style of hockey to fit the current 1..

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Guest [RiP] Medux

p.s u guys just cant base whos better of how many goals the dude scores, you actually gotta watch the hocky games to truly understnad the type of players they are

casue what if ovechkin had 10 goals crosby 10 assiasts ? your going to chosoe ovechkin because GOALS attract the fellow fan more then assiasts

 

by teh way the best Power Forward int he game = JOE THORTON

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I can't believe that you really think Gretzky couldn't play now. What planet are you from?? He could have played in any era. He talent is above all others. The guy made hockey what it is today.

 

As for Mario i think he could also play at any era. He has the talent that just makes everyone around him better. He could score but he also could pass. I think that's why Crosby is as good as he is. He gets to work with one of the best all round players of all time. (NOT saying Mario is the best)

 

I still think people will give Ovechkin the nod on being the better of the two because he scores. But if I had to build a team around one of these two players I would still go with Crosby. He has both both parts of the game down. Passing and scoring. Crosby understands that just because you are open doesn't mean you have the best shot. IMO.

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Guest [RiP] Medux

nice post prime

unno if hes the best to build a "team" around wouldnt that make him better though? ..cause this is a TEAM sport and you need to be a TEAM to win the stanley cup witch is what every great player is judged on not always how many goals or points they get

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Guest M16Assassin

Okay I never said anywhere in my post about choosing Ovechkin because he scores a lot. You can look at each team how you want but the fact is that Pittsburgh is a way more well rounded team. Washington is comprised of Ovechkin, Backstrom and an old Federov. I don't even like Ovechkin but I still think he is more valuable and brings more to a team than Sid. Look at the talent around him, he still manages to score 60 goals and get 46 assists. He also sets up his teammates. But the most important stat you can look at is +/-. Ovechkin is a +23 and Sid is +18. Sid has a lot less points so that does point out that Sid is a better defensive player. But based on what he brings to the team I think I have to choose Ovechkin over Sid. If you took Ovechkin off of the Capitals they would be crippled. I think Pittsburgh would be more able to handle the loss of Sid not to say that he isn't extremely important.

 

And I do watch hockey and I know both of them very well, I've been involved with playing and coaching for 14 years. Not to say that I'm right and you are wrong but I'm just giving you my background. I'm not a bum who is on Ovechkin's dick cause he scores.

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Guest [RiP] Medux

you do no crosby was leading in points before he got hurt? he was 15 points ahead of ovechkin ..yeah ovechkin didnt even make it teh 100 point mark last year..crosby won MVP and 2 otehr trophies along with that at the age of 19

 

but hwo can you say ovechkin brings more to the team, if they havnt even made the playoffs with him in it ? ...(i forgot 2 mention alexander Semin aswell he is very talented for the washignton capitals) but yeah and the Pens are in First place yeah i guess you could they have a few more players but im telling you without crosby that team wouldnt be to much and i dont even think malkin would be as good as he is right now.. ( hes is abosutley SICK)

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Gretzky- Chippy hanger, didnt play a two way game, watch nhl network, the goalie pads were tiny, i could score on those goalies. No doubt gretzy had talent but he put up huge numbers in an era of when goalies werent that good and the equipment was shit. Noone hit like they do now, though there was a lot of fighting. Theres less space on the ice nowadays due to bigger players and defensive system.

 

And your crazy if you think Ovechkin has a supporting cast.

 

Old man Michael Nylander was signed to play with him, as well as ENIGMA Victor Kozlov who has world class talent but doesn't have the head or heart to play 82 games. Had his best year with my Islanders last year and now hes back to his old form. Semin has been hurt and hasnt been the same player since his breakout year last year. Backstrom is a kid...let him develop some. That team is barely contending in a weak bottom half of the eastern conference and its due to Alex Ovechkin.

 

Now Crosby has:

2ND overall selection Evgeni Malkin

Proven solid offensive player in Petr Sykora

2nnd overall selection Jordan Staal

Ryan Malone who is a consistently 20/20 guy when healthy

 

Crosby also gets the Gretzky treatment. Noone can touch him without a penalty being called. Noone can touch him without a teammate jumping in. Crosby gets away with a lot.

 

Ovechkin

52 goals 54 assists

46 goals 46 assists

60 goals 46 assists ( season not over)

 

Crosby

39 goals 63 assists

36 goals 84 assists

22 goals 45 assists (hurt for a good portion of the year)

 

Ovechkin puts up those points with NOBODY.

While Crosby has 2 top selections and other offensive players around him.

 

Washington DC isnt a hockey town, they've always struggled to sign good players.

Pittsburgh is tough to say, they support their sports franchises pretty well. And the Pens havent had the problem attracting FA.

 

Joe Thorton happens to be 6'4...if he was 5'11, he'd be the same player. He is a passer and a passer first. Think Ron Francis. His puck control and vision are impecable.

 

Powerfowards score, hit, play a strong game in the corners and will run through you if need be.

BEST POWERFOWARD OF ALL TIME = CAM NEELEY, Ovechkin looks like he can be the next great...but I have my doubts. Like most highly touted russians, they light up the league for a period of time and then when they hit their 30's they start to decline. With the style of game that Ovechkin plays, I'm interested in seeing if he can maintain his pace through his whole career.

 

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Guest [RiP] Medux

yeah goal equipment wasnt good = player equipment wasnt good...so u cant comapre that ..goalies HAVE become more athletic and better and what they do thoe and also bigger yeah..and if ur talking about the defnsive systems they were more implicated back then ..then now man lol .. "new jersey Devils " THE TRAPP

they were the best at it ..this is before the lock out of course.and well backstrom just a kid? crosby is still a kid age 20 ? MVP age of 19 along with some other trophies..SHOULD of won Calder trophie rookie year..played 79 games that year ..he would of made up the 4 poitns gurantee it, but that is besdies the point ..Malkin nor stall play on crosbys line So you cant say he has the supporting cast cuz well he dosnt paly with them he plays with Malone normally and the otehr guy i dont no

 

and who cares if he gets the grezky treatment thats stupid..if u were the penguins franchiese would u want your player to be around longer?? or to take the beatings?? and about the reffs giving him the benifit of the doubt he gets SOOOO many peantlies

 

 

and Joe thorton and ron francis can not be comapred AT ALL...man lol i dont no if i read ur psot write or not its a little late but i tihnk you were saying joe Thorton isnt a Power Forward?? crazy

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I think you have two totally different debates here. One is the best overall hockey player and I don't see how you can deny that from Crosby. He has an overall game that even a the young age of 19 and 20 was being compared to the best of all time. His vision and passing ability is second to none in the league. Ovechkin is a much better goal scorer, the best in the league by far, IMO. Whoever was saying that Crosby isn't a physical player is crazy ... I don't know if you actually watch him play or just catch the highlights of him on ESPN but the guy plays physical. He might take runs at guys like Ovechkin does, but his game is very physical. Watch him work the boards sometime, his power and ability to control the puck on the boards is disgusting.

 

Overall Hockey Player - Crosby

Better Goal Scorer - Ovechkin

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Guest [RiP] Medux

yeah thats true and yeah hes very phsycial along hte boards ..very good lower body strength he holds onto that puck like matts Sundin man no1 takes teh thing away from him

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Medux ]

yeah thats true and yeah hes very phsycial along hte boards ..very good lower body strength he holds onto that puck like matts Sundin man no1 takes teh thing away from him

 

I'll tell you who has really impressed me is Hossa, that guy can really hold on to the puck.

 

Ok, all the crosby and ovechkin talk about about considering Malkin in this ? He's only four points behind ovechkin with a game at hand. I don't know what it is with him, but he plays sooo much better when Crosby's not in the lineup.

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Guest [RiP] Medux

personally i like Malkin better then Ovechkin, yeah i dont no y he does that man if he keeps the game up when crosby comes back Hossa is back now..and FLEURY steps his game up ...mannn watch out

 

 

THOE truely im a leafs FAN so i hope they make the playoffs 1st..if not GO PENS

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What part dont you understand? POWER FORWARDS SCORE GOALS. Like I said, if Thorton was 5'11 he'd be the same player. He plays a perimeter game, and he passes a ton, often times he gives up shots for passes. Because hes 6'4, he CAN go into the corners, but when you go into the corners, you come out of a battle and score a goal, thats what a powerforward does. Meanwhile Big Joe , makes the pass to the hashmarks and his linemates bang them home. Joe is a fantastic passer. I said think ron francis because francis was a pass first player, his goal scorer came 2nd to him.

 

Go look in NHL08, Joe Thorton listed as PLY, stands for playmaker, not PWF which stands for power forward. ;D

 

As for Crosby, as in my arguement stated, I take a center over a winger when im starting a franchise. But I dont get how people low ball ovechkin when it comes to being "selfish". He has goal totals higher then crosby and his assist totals below crosby. If he passed more, you take away his goals and you jack up his assists. People act like he has 60 goals and 15 assists thus labeling him a selfish player, he has 45+ assists each year.

 

Better goal scorer- ovechkin

Better playmayer- Draw

Better overall player( equates everything including defense) - Incompariable, centers have to be much more defensive responsible. As far as plus/minus, both are pretty shitty in that aspect considering their talent and immense scoring ability. I think just cuz they are young and learning its low, but as they get older, it should skyrocket. As you can see Crosby was on an ascent with his at 18 and Ovechkin at 23. DRAW for now.

 

Backstrom is a boy compared to Crosby. Crosby will be the same awesome player from 17 until he retires. Backstrom has to work on his game to be a better player, theres a huge difference.

 

Rage posted, so it stopped me...ask yourselves this.

Take Crosby out of the lineup, what would happend? Well you see what happend, Malkin carries this team on his back.

Take Ovechkin out of the lineup, they are a lottery pick at next years draft.

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Nino_Nemasis ]

Rage posted, so it stopped me...ask yourselves this.

Take Crosby out of the lineup, what would happend? Well you see what happend, Malkin carries this team on his back.

Take Ovechkin out of the lineup, they are a lottery pick at next years draft.

 

I see what your pointing out, I just don't think it's that valid in trying to pick out who's the better overall player. As you said a center has a lot more responsibility. I mean, how many people still try to argue Gretzky and the cast that he had ? Believe me, I'm a huge Mario fan and I won't even take that angle because I don't think it has much validity. Crosby has that same vision and passing ability. Ovechkin has more flare in his game and is a great goal scorer. But, if you really watch closely at the two, they are so different in how they play, I just think Crosby brings more to the table as an overall hockey player, regardless of his teammates.

 

Both Malkin and Crosby make players around them better, Ovechkin, IMO can't do that. Both Malkin and Crosby has shown how they can take a Malone, Armstrong, Christiansen, Talbot and make them successful. If Ovechkin had that in him I think it would be a closer debate.

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Guest [RiP] Medux

hey quick change of topic here.. i no msot of you are prob western conference watchers but any of u watch the leafs?? do u think they will make the playoffs?

 

 

 

ALSO what do u guys think of the new NHL compared to the older?

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