Summer Summit 2014

[Pillorian]

Due to the near complete demise of what we used to know as our competitive online gaming, I would like to organize a summit for the clan leaders of the many communities that have participated at UF and UF-like communities (Autumn Forge, Chaos Tactics, GetSomeGaming) as well as those websites' owners . The purpose of this summit is to bring everyone together to begin rebuilding what was once a great thing for gamers and communities to something greater than it ever was.

 

Please reach out and contact clan leaders and have them post here that they would like to participate and have them post in this thread.

 

The initial plan is to conduct the summit on a free voip program (Skype, RaidCall, TS/Mumble) on a day/night agreed upon.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Pillorian

[Pillorian]

Competed as: (UF) [WOLF] FrozenPaw, (UF/CT) [AieL] TheCaracarn, (UF/AF) [LPK] [iFx] i2IDIUM

Clan Leader of: The AieL Sept (Former)

Current Clan: None

 

Preferred VOIP: RaidCall, Skype

Preferred Time (summit): Day or Night

[IFx Johnson30]

Good idea. I would like to see where this goes.

 

Johnson30

 

[odc] [LPK] [iFx]

[DevilHawk34]

I will notify RVN leaders and see what the have to say.

[DK_MaluNYMets]

Sounds good.

[ToXiC__HaZaRD]

Personally, it sounds like a great idea but we all have our own idea's of how we see sites being ran. I just don't think clan gaming is what it used to be. In this day and age it's about teams vs the clan competitive atmosphere. Sure their are few clans out their that still believe in this type of thing but ultimately in my honest opinion our sites won't stand due to the team thing now a days.

 

Sent from my Stratosphere II using Tapatalk 2!

[DK_MaluNYMets]

This isn't about clans it's about everything.

 

DK has been around for almost 6 years now. We've won around 12 championships if my memory is correct. I would say other then 4 of them the roster was 90 percent changed. Meaning we rebuilt with new membership or you can say added.

 

If there are people that are able to do things. Things will get done. That's just the bottom line. There are a lot of teams but you have to understand that 90 percent of those players have no idea of websites/clans all this stuff. I picked up players all through out those 6 years who were never part of any clan.

 

Whether it be a clan, tournament site, community whatever. It's about people who can come together with ideas and take those ideas and move forward and make them into something.

 

I do the same thing in real life for work so for me failure is never an option. You got to be one step ahead of the game.

[Pillorian]

Without a doubt, the change in clan support in titles over the years had a big effect on how clans have played and played together. The way match making works these days, inter-clan stuff isn't encouraged like it was in the early Socom(s). A result of this paradigm shift (imo) introduced why I personally experienced here with my clan. We felt like outsiders. The only time we ever played with other members of the tournament community was in events, along with the occasional pre-tournament scrimmages.

 

Talking to people who were playing before I was, they have given me the impression that inter-clan relations were much more involved back then. Clans would host community nights and multiple players from various clans would join in. Things were rough for AieL, but I watched things get worse after we quit playing. I know having some sort of rapport with other clans would have changed quite a bit of what we experienced.

 

Also I think the COD community in the way many are really only single-title players. I was in this camp as well. The only titles I bought between COD4 and BO1 was COD games. Since moving on from COD, I have experienced great genres like MOBAs and other multiplayer games.

 

Additionally, I saw many clans die to age of their members. Real life catches up and video games are something that just gets squeezed out. UF always was a more "mature" community as its player base was older. Those players hit the later stages in their lives, they moved on but their spots were never filled in the community. Sites that have run tournaments afterwards were merely supporting preexisting clans. Sure a few new communities popped up but they did not last.

 

TL;DR The way people play games has changed over the years. The older players moved on and were never replaced. Moving forward, new communities need to be encouraged to start and develop. This is likely what we need to figure out how to make happen.

[ToXiC__HaZaRD]

That's where I disagree with you Mets. You should never have a mixture of clans & teams competing against each other. It does ruin for some out their who are just looking to get into competitive scene. Nothing wrong with creating a hybrid site that offers both team tournaments w/ cash payouts because let's face it that's what teams want to compete for. Clans in the past were happy with GFX banners for winning a tournament. Clans were never looking for payouts (at least when i competed) but I haven't rolled with a clan since the ToXiC days competitively speaking. I still roll with those guys' and we have our own team.

 

That's beside the point in what is trying to get accomplished in this thread. Yes, you want to stay ahead of the game but doing it the right & respective way at the end of the day. From what I gathered from this post was that you're trying to get the clan scene back into the glory days of past. To do that we all have to come together and work on a common goal. Realize we all have our own idea's of what we each can offer to make it happen. Isn't that why we had so many sites to compete at to begin with? We could never come together as a team to put the best site together to begin with. We all thought each site had their flaws and clans saw that too which lead them to find a different place to compete.

 

If we're willing to do this then we all need to know what each of us can pitch in to make it happen.

 

A buddy of mine and myself started a GFX company and we would be willing to do GFX if this vision comes to light. We did the GFX banners for GetsomeGaming and a few champ banners for NGXPro. You can see the work we've done in the past few months on twitter @ApocDesigns or facebook.com/ApocDesigns

 

Sent from my Stratosphere II using Tapatalk 2!

Edited August 6, 2014 by ToXiC__HaZaRD

[Last-]

Welp you can sign me up for the summit and hope that more clans can show up. I mean I have no clue who is still around but hopefully clans can atleast get a leader or someone of high rank to come forth and discuss the future of clan gaming.

[shane]

While this may work, there are no games that support clan gaming from the past on the horizon. We have realigned our focus to that which is driven by our partnership with PlayStation. We will still offer a variety of games and a major overhaul for UF is coming by the end of the year before PAX South. Our focus will be heavily on Destiny this fall. That may be the only game we use out of the releases this fall, maybe COD but I do not have high hopes for that franchise at this point based on what I have seen. Cntry and Money are working on Battlefield 4 as there is a request to get a tournament for it going, but most of our tournaments are going to be a league style for the foreseeable future.

 

We are in a unique position with our relationship with PlayStation and we will continue to follow the roadmap that we have put together with them. This is how we are going to keep UF moving. It will also expose many new competitive players to our style of gaming. That in turn will be the opportunity to teach the new generation of gamers about competition with long term teammates vs a different team for every event.

 

I will continue to monitor this thread to see where it goes, it is a great idea, and there would need to be a large participation for it to work.

[DK_MaluNYMets]

I think that's the main problem Shane. No games on the horizon? Call of Duty? Look at the Clan War Clans. There are THOUSANDS of them. I play COD almost every single day and meet with full fledged clans 1 out of every 4 lobbies we play in.

 

SEAL has been active on call of duty and pretty decent participation for COD tournaments. Chaos Tactics as well had a decent amount of clans participate.

 

The problem I see is Recruitment. All the older players like mentioned above have all retired or are casual gamers. Heck I think that's one of the MAIN issues in my clan as well. There aren't many people like me who are DEDICATED to follow through with a game plan. Sit down and have the ability to deal with people. Make them feel they are wanted, recruited and brought in.

 

I switched from Playstation to XBOX. Had one player with me last year when I took over our XBOX Platform. Now we have about 25 active players who play almost every day. Are registered on our forums and slowly working it's way to being active. Now we have at least 2 people asking to join the clan every 2-3 days.

 

Several clans in this community and else where have given up on playing COD because it's not socom OR their too busy to play and recruit. It takes dedication and time to do something like that.

 

Go to the xbox.com forums. TONS of people are posting about their clans, their communities and their ideas. It only takes a couple of messages which is EASY on xbox forums to send directly to their console to bring them in.

 

We can rebuild UF or any site. We just need strong individuals willing to put in the time. I wish I had more time to commit to do a big over haul and spend time recruiting clans and getting them on board. But I can't run a clan and a tournament with my real life. Again if we can find a group of individuals we can still do GREAT things.

 

People told me the clan I was part of was dead. Most of our founders were retired or barely active and we totally rebuilt our clan with new refreshing membership. MOST OF THEM who have NEVER been in a clan before and learning things like tournament sites, communities and forums. Even in real life I'm a District Manager. People said we couldn't get numbers up because of location, customers - BLAH BLAH BLAH. It's about the individuals running the store. Using ideas from a team to take a good idea and make it great.

[shane]

I think you misread what I said. I said there are no games that provide clan style competitive gaming. Destiny is kinda close, but times have changed.

 

We cannot depend on just clans. I also can tell you we are not going to do anything XBox related. Our focus is on PS4 and will continue that way.

 

We have so much support thanks to Sony, there is no reason to over extend ourselves once again to try and have an XBox event.

 

But as I mentioned we have a plan for this fall and we will see where it takes us.

[ToXiC__HaZaRD]

I agree with Mets in that it will take time and dedication to build a fully functional site. We all offer our unique experiences in what we think works and it's just a matter of putting idea's together and being respectful of those idea's. I am all about helping in anyway I can as long as I know we have a dedicated team in putting a site together.

 

However, I won't help rebuild UF and I mean no disrespect Shane but anybody that I've run into from a competitive standpoint have had nothing but negative comments about UF. Not Shane's fault by any means but especially if the Sony community in terms of CoD think such bad thoughts because of the LAN then trying to rebuild UF is pointless. Again I mean no disrespect Shane and I have no ill means towards this site or what it has done in the past.

 

If we're going to rebuild a site then let's do it from scratch and go about it the right way.

 

Sent from my Stratosphere II using Tapatalk 2!

[shane]

Well that did not take long... If gamers are not going to understand what happened it is what it is. I am paying the players out of my pocket once I start my new job this month. We have moved forward and at least Sony has our back on that subject. It is not the first time something like this has happened and probably wont be the last. Look at EGL waiting almost 2 years to payout their winnings to gamers while continuing to run events.

 

Anyway back on topic.

[Pillorian]

Personally idc what tournament sites choose to do. There have been times where we've had several sites running, trying to meet different expectations and the clans still were falling apart. Because of this, making points that this is _____ site's fault is moot. Now there is definitely some valid discussion in the type of rules and formats that have been run and if the sites are delivering what is wanted by the community. That is definitely something we can discuss. Additionally, cooperation between sites and tournaments only benefits everyone. Scheduling on top of each other doesn't benefit a small group of clans. However when the community is large this is where it become acceptable. Lets steer this discussion back to where it needs to be guys, about rebuilding clans. Over the years I've heard people say the phrase "build it and they will come." Many sites have tried it and it has not helped. That's a fact. I personally bought into that ideology as well with the projects I was involved with. Although people reading this may or may not be involved in running these sites, it needs to be recognized by everyone that clan/community building and tournaments, while they are not mutually exclusive, play a small part in this process. We need to encourage existing clans to rebuild and promote new clans from starting up. Take for example the Riz post here a few days ago. I respect Mets for his ability to keep his clan rolling for so many years, he can bring some valuable information in this discussion regarding that. But, if everyone scoops up all these potential seeds for new clans, then there will be no more new clans. Additionally, I've seen so many people leave UF-type clans to only join another UF-type clan. Just imagine if those people had started their own communities. In fact, I'm proof that doing that can lead to success, albeit we are not around now. I had a disagreement with the way that my former clan was being run, so I left and started my own. We need more stories like this happening. We need more completely new people starting up their own clans and we sure as well have enough knowledge here to help those individuals get started.Edit: Typos

Edited August 8, 2014 by Pillorian

[Pillorian]

Well for the people who have made it here, would you be interested in holding a VOIP meeting this weekend?

[ToXiC__HaZaRD]

I'm free Saturday evening/night as well as Sunday, just need a time.

 

Sent from my Stratosphere II using Tapatalk 2!

[Pillorian]

Even if we can't get a group together this weekend, I'd like to talk with some people. I will be available today to talk at 5pm EST, 7pm EST, and 9pm EST. I can be reached on skype, please message me for contact info, or on RaidCall (free). If you use another program, I will see if I can get it.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Even if we can't get a group together this weekend, I'd like to talk with some people. I will be available today to talk at 5pm EST, 7pm EST, and 9pm EST. I can be reached on skype, please message me for contact info, or on RaidCall (free).

Edited August 9, 2014 by Pillorian

[Pillorian]

A few members from various clans have provided some thought on summit threads I have posted on their sites. With that I would like to include some additional talking points for this discussion.

 

I am going to schedule to plan to meet next weekend with members of the community. Please contact me this week if you would like to meet!

 

---

The Change to Match Making from Server Browsers

 

First being the topic of clan relations and how the games changed to match making instead of games with server browsers. Perhaps some people can chime in on this but playing with other clans is far easier in a server browser environment as people would tend to hang around specific servers. I feel like the shift from server browsers to match making has had a significant impact on how we play and interact.

 

Benefits of Server Browsers

 

- For recruiting clans, say you have a clan playing on US West 10 and a random clan member comes in and they hit it off maybe the clan tells this new player about the tournaments. I'm fairly certain this scenario played out in the early UF recruiting days on Socom.

- For clan to clan relations, you know say clan RVN plays on US East 10 and so you can meet up and shoot em up with good friends.

Overall, the server browser environment is much more friendly for what UF-type clans are looking to do.

 

I remember in MW2, this other clan my clan played with, Next of Kin, tried to do something like this. Someone would go into a public match then everyone would join his session. We would fill up the 12-man lobby with friends and even though sometimes the teams were stacked because it would randomize the teams. Getting shot by friends was much more fun than getting shot by randoms or even just normal pub stomping. Especially with all of the broken things in MW2 it allowed us to play without OMA+M203 spam.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't something we can really change. Games are either going to be made to support MM or with server browsers. How can we embrace this change and turn it to a positive?

 

 

---

COD Problems

 

Second there has been some talk about the rules and format of tournaments. I have not gotten to talk to many old guard players yet, but the players I have heard from have similar experience as myself in the COD generation. It seems it relation to COD that the size of events is a hot topic as well as settings and game modes.

 

I'm not quite sure where I stand on the 4v4 vs 6v6+ argument. I've played in tournaments with many different settings and to be frank there isn't a ton of difference. As a clan leader, I found it to be much easier to maintain interest in the tournament within my clan when we had larger sized matches as everyone gets an opportunity to play. But as time has gone on, finding clans that can fulfill these requirements has diminished significantly.

 

As an aside, I'm not even sure where 4v4 originated from. Yes it came from MLG settings, but why have 4v4 on a game with maps designed for 6v6+? I've never understood this. The only thing I can think of is when COD hit the scene, Halo was still very significant and it ran on 4v4. Players transitioning from Halo to COD likely wanted to replicate what they were used to.

 

The more hot topic when I was trying to recruit clans to play here a few years ago was the HC vs Core argument. After playing S4 and more recently CSGO, I've learned something that I think benefits UF-type clans and tournaments. Before I talk about that though, I want to cover why HC doesn't work and meta-game in COD.

 

The problem with HC is that COD as a game was simply designed to be played in the Core environment. Weapon tuning, explosive damage, etc are all designed with Core in mind. With game mechanics like how suppressors have damage reduction (over a distance), in HC a max range suppressed sub bullet can kill someone, this vastly simplifies the meta-game. As a result, the rule of thumb in HC is you want to use the most accurate (looking at you ACR from MW2/MW3) rifle or sub and slap a suppressor on it. Heck even suppressed snipers suddenly become viable. That's not fun or interesting.

 

What makes tactical games fun is choice. You need to be equipped with the optimal gear for the map or situation you are in.

 

Looking at Core, there are more variety in loadouts unless we are talking about guns like FAMAS in BO1 where it completely outclasses all other guns in its category. If you were to ban the FAMAS the entire inventory of viable ARs open up. COD4, one of the best in the series, had several guns that were viable but did not completely outclass others in its category. M16, M4, AK, MP5, AK74u, Remington R700 to name a few.

 

COD in general is designed to be easy to play for new players, hence its rapid growth and rise in popularity. If you are new, you are likely to have poor positioning, so you can take a few bullets, then just hide behind cover and regain your health. Because HC is not viable nor balanced in terms of meta-game and strategy, the most balanced option I can come up with is to simply remove health regen. Which leads me into the next topic.

 

 

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Competitive Balance Between Clans

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this has been a major issue since late SOCOM and early COD as you didn't see back-to-back championships in UF tournament history until these times. For my clan, aside from a few great innovations in strategy we had, I can safely say the reason we were very successful was due to the sheer amount of talent and younger, twitch fingers in comparison to other active clans at the time. To counter, other clans started recruiting to stack their rosters. After I stopped running my clan, I witnessed how ugly this gets as a particular team popped up where their ideology was to get as much talent as they could even if the players didn't get along. I think everyone here can agree that this is not ideal for the community abroad. After helping with Autumn Forge, I came up with some rules to discourage this type of "team" from participating in that clans participating in events need to show stability in terms of staying together under the same name and leadership as well as a stable roster.

 

When I played with some older clans like LPK, this brought me some interesting insight to what other UF clans were going through. LPK had some players that had been in the clan for some time, but were more there for friendship as opposed to competition. It was interesting in my first S4 tournament with LPK, trying to win matches against teams with more better players. Looking back on this has brought me to the realization why no health regen is beneficial for UF-type community events.

 

When you have a player of lesser skill, assuming they can at least acquire a target and at least put a few shots into an enemy, even though they don't get the kill they are able to contribute by damaging the opponent to make things easier for other players to clean up. With health regen, if you don't get the kill, you are not valuable to the roster.

 

COD, as it was used here has really forced out the clans with lesser talent by only rewarding the clans with more.

 

Also with game modes with respawn, where maintaining map control is actually what wins, a player's life is less important because they can come back and you can regain map control. With 1-life, round based modes, kills are very important as they give you more opportunities for power plays because you can then take map control and plant the bomb.

 

Along with improved clan relations and if In-Country had been a 1-life, round based, event, my clan having more talent would have been more irrelevant, and the playing field would have been more even. Game modes of SnD, 1-life Sabotage, and 1-life TDM would have been ideal looking back with this in mind.

 

 

---

 

Those are some of my thoughts along with some of the topics that have come up in reaching out to the community. What are your thoughts?

[Neoblackhound]

Hello guys long time no see lol.

Thoughts on rebuilding communities and overhauling things is this you want to attract people in 3 seconds or less. Now a days kids and people in general have attention spans of around 3 seconds, test it for yourself. Look at say instagram how long do you typically look at a picture? A few seconds right? Well thats pretty much how it is now a days you either catch someone fast or they are bored and move on. Not only that people don't have the patience to surf around anymore, they like info right when they want it, they want instant gratification. Gaming has become this thing where games like COD come out in around a year each year so no one has time to really dedicate to a specific game. They make games to instantly gratify modern players so that you don't notice the game sucks until well like most cods a few months after then its onto the next cod saying the typical oh the next one will be good just wait.

We went from playing a Socom for years to playing COD for a few months. You have to think about how you're gonna catch people and how you get them to stay. Simple, flashy, and fast that's how things work now. It is what it is with games starting to adopt the madden style of releasing each year its going to get worse, don't even get me started on how bad BF4 was and how Hardline is a clone with a new skin. I'm hoping Destiny can keep it fresh enough so far it's been my favorite game this year and it hasn't even come out. Just saying in the end you have to market for impatient stupidity with shiny toys.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Neoblackhound

[DK_MaluNYMets]

Agree with Wrath. Sorry I won't be around responding till late weekend.

[Pillorian]

I have a general question for some of the leaders here. When you guys go into a match, are you always putting out your best possible line up every match, or do you consider who you are going up against?

[DK_MaluNYMets]

Just a heads up. I've created some private forums at the DK Website. If anyone wants to continue some discussions about how we can improve our Gaming Communities come by and check it out!!

 

http://www.divineknightsclan.com/forum

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Just a heads up. I've created some private forums at the DK Website. If anyone wants to continue some discussions about how we can improve our Gaming Communities come by and check it out!!

 

www.divineknightsclan.com/forum

[Awtrace]

Pillorian, i thank you for trying to get this started as most of us have probably had some sort of conversation relating to this and i appreciate the fact that you are at least trying to do that. I would like to contribute in anyway i can. While i go to school and work full time, i don't always have a ton of time. However i'm willing to help by at least by being in constant communication in what needs to be done and in what we should all do contribute.

 

I am attempting to make UnF an actual clan instead of just a competitive team that really isn't going anywhere due to the lack of interest. I guess you could consider myself and wing Founders but we have agreed to find a separate leader entirely as we feel we are not entirely fit for the job. We would like to give help in anyway we can.

 

If there is anything I, or we, can do please feel free to let me know. I would like to be a part of the skype conversation so we can discuss how we can improve the community and "bring it back to life" as some may say.

 

We all wish to compete at a place that can bring the clans together so there is always new people to play and new titles to play for.

 

Again, i appreciate Pillorian for bringing this to light and as i said, i will do anything in my power to help.