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Rant against Shane Again

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It's great that the change to IBP was made, the previous install of vB was fairly broken.

 

Granted website design has changed quite a bit over the years, what made the old site look great was the military theme. Even though it was made in a Macromedia image table-ified structure, it still looks great, given its function, even today.

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20070716033920/http://www.urgentfury.com/

 

On the old version for example you have the Socom/military dude front and center, there are tanks, a slider with content that is relevant to what was going on at that time but and provided further explaination of what was on the site. With the colors you have UF orange and 3 shades of military green. You felt like you are in a military command center.

 

This current iteration to be frank looks like a theme off of a free site. The shade of green being used on the main forum post boxes is good along with the darker shade on the post footers, but the header green on the boxes and button color looks way out of place. Way too much of a mint green in comparsion. This really is an eye sore on the profile/avatar box as the entire box is that mint color. I understand times are tough, but...

 

Structurally there are several issues. You have the main content width for the posts and then the width for the side bar, then out of nowhere the largest breadcrum and search bar I have ever seen break the flow of the page. Also there padding inconsistencies between this and the profile area is much greater than the padding between the main content and side bar. Additionally, the frosted background image on the page header does not align with the actual page background unless you are full screen at 1080. That image needs to be centered inside the div like the page background is (using background-position: center; css property).

 

Finally as I mentioned with the old site; I have no idea what this site is about when I'm on the front page. All I see is a orange and black logo, some basic generic links, a TON of text, what at first glance appears to be duplicate side bar contents (do you really need a box for channels and previous streams in this area?). The only hint of what UF actually is comes from the background image. And the only way you know who those characters are is if you have played those games. Yes I understand you are striving to be a Sony Playstation site with your 'partnership' but I don't even see Sony or PS logos!?

 

Sorry for the upcoming rant, but this needs to be said given UF's new direction.

 

From what I gather from this design, what you have stated publically and privately to myself and others on these forums, what I've seen you put your time and effort into on this site in the past and present its fairly clear to me that you have no understanding of what actually made UF great before. I really don't think you actually understand what made UF successful and brought gamers from around the world here.

 

This is pretty evident by the fact that you never ran an actual clan--not one that is just some friends playing under a tag. I think an interesting thing I noticed was the shift from "military shooter scenario-based tournaments" to "Sony Partners" since I've been here. UF didn't need a partnership with Sony to have hundreds of people visiting this site to the point where clans had to be turned away due to physical constrains of tac map formats. It didn't need a produced show that was played to an audience of the most casual gamers (which is not the type of people that were frequenting this site). What UF had was great leadership, direction, and plenty of "do-ers" who did it for the experience not the possibility of greater financial success. Now don't confuse me with saying striving for that is a bad thing. Only that their decisions and direction were based upon what would provide the best experience. If you look at any successful businesses that have risen, they were run by people who were passionate about what they were doing.

 

I mean, considering what you were looking at when you purchased this site. A site with tons of activity and endless amounts of clans and communities, being operated by those communities. If not for poor releases it is not unreasonable to think that this model could continue on its own, and would basically mean profits for you and your business partners.

 

But then your workers started to get older and began loosing interest. Staff member after staff member became inactive or left until you were left with J30, Puddy, and Wolf Dog. During that time the only thing you did was keep the lights on and continue to do so, thanks for that, I suppose. I know I said to you and the other people in the staff areas that the addage "If you build it they will come" does not work here. Sure you may have agreed, but as things were falling apart you either didn't care to do anything because you didn't want to put in the effort, or, the more likely, you didn't know what needed to be done. I saw many offer their opinions and thoughts about the state of what was going on during the decline, but it was met with "NDA", ignorance, and closed doors.

 

It is really unfortunate that you are too stubborn to realize this. When called on it, you blame other people like the Ranger program and your "workers" who were promised to one day reap a portion of the financial benefits you had hoped to realize when you acquired the site. And yet we stand here today with an average of 3-6 unique forum member visits per day and the only thing that is important to you is your self imposed personal relationships with "industry".

 

Way to stick it to your community dude.

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I'm going to respond to this in two parts first the design comments:
 

It's great that the change to IBP was made, the previous install of vB was fairly broken.
 
Granted website design has changed quite a bit over the years, what made the old site look great was the military theme. Even though it was made in a Macromedia image table-ified structure, it still looks great, given its function, even today.
 
http://web.archive.org/web/20070716033920/http://www.urgentfury.com/
 
On the old version for example you have the Socom/military dude front and center, there are tanks, a slider with content that is relevant to what was going on at that time but and provided further explaination of what was on the site. With the colors you have UF orange and 3 shades of military green. You felt like you are in a military command center.
 
This current iteration to be frank looks like a theme off of a free site. The shade of green being used on the main forum post boxes is good along with the darker shade on the post footers, but the header green on the boxes and button color looks way out of place. Way too much of a mint green in comparsion. This really is an eye sore on the profile/avatar box as the entire box is that mint color. I understand times are tough, but...
 
Structurally there are several issues. You have the main content width for the posts and then the width for the side bar, then out of nowhere the largest breadcrum and search bar I have ever seen break the flow of the page. Also there padding inconsistencies between this and the profile area is much greater than the padding between the main content and side bar. Additionally, the frosted background image on the page header does not align with the actual page background unless you are full screen at 1080. That image needs to be centered inside the div like the page background is (using background-position: center; css property).
 
Finally as I mentioned with the old site; I have no idea what this site is about when I'm on the front page. All I see is a orange and black logo, some basic generic links, a TON of text, what at first glance appears to be duplicate side bar contents (do you really need a box for channels and previous streams in this area?). The only hint of what UF actually is comes from the background image. And the only way you know who those characters are is if you have played those games. Yes I understand you are striving to be a Sony Playstation site with your 'partnership' but I don't even see Sony or PS logos!?

 
Let me address the Military Theme, we talked about this for several weeks before going with a more general theme for the initial background vs a military background because we are not tied to military themed games specifically. We will be offering various types of games as the trend takes us. But as we felt there were gamers that would like a game specific look you will find the option to choose a Call of Duty and Battlefield 4 theme. We will be adding additional backgrounds as well.
 
We reference the old design often believe it or not, it is still right here on the server and we have the source files to this day. www.urgentfury.com/aboutold.html but one of the many things we have done is moved to a centralized CMS purley for integration purposes. This is only the beginning of the design process and frankly we moved to get the conversion done before I went back on the road. My internet access is going to be on satellite so getting the conversion done this week was a priority.
 
The lighter greens are already something we are looking at for the buttons and such. Making adjustments to the color is actually not too hard and can be done as we see fit. But as I said this is a base design until we move into the full custom design being developed by a professional IPB Skin Designer.
 
We are in agreement with the breadcrumb and search bar, this is something we are looking to change but came with the particular theme we purchased. We are not going to do any major skin breaking moves since we are actually going to be moving to a full design change down the road.
 
The frosted effect is actually not a separate image, it is done via java and we really cannot control it... we have discussed taking it out altogether but for now we are going to keep it because it is kind of a neat effect. 
 
The content on the front page is not quite done yet... that really is on my end as I have been trying to get several things done before I leave next week. This will be something I am working on while I sit at the rig on my 12 hour shifts. There are actually several pages that are not currently viewable that will come as they are complete. This includes a rewritten about us page with a history about Urgent Fury, at History of the TacMap and a few other pages.
 
The Logos you are looking for will be added to the footer which is not quite complete so we have it omitted right now. 
 
Now your rant:
 

Sorry for the upcoming rant, but this needs to be said given UF's new direction.

From what I gather from this design, what you have stated publically and privately to myself and others on these forums, what I've seen you put your time and effort into on this site in the past and present its fairly clear to me that you have no understanding of what actually made UF great before. I really don't think you actually understand what made UF successful and brought gamers from around the world here.

This is pretty evident by the fact that you never ran an actual clan--not one that is just some friends playing under a tag. I think an interesting thing I noticed was the shift from "military shooter scenario-based tournaments" to "Sony Partners" since I've been here. UF didn't need a partnership with Sony to have hundreds of people visiting this site to the point where clans had to be turned away due to physical constrains of tac map formats. It didn't need a produced show that was played to an audience of the most casual gamers (which is not the type of people that were frequenting this site). What UF had was great leadership, direction, and plenty of "do-ers" who did it for the experience not the possibility of greater financial success. Now don't confuse me with saying striving for that is a bad thing. Only that their decisions and direction were based upon what would provide the best experience. If you look at any successful businesses that have risen, they were run by people who were passionate about what they were doing.

I mean, considering what you were looking at when you purchased this site. A site with tons of activity and endless amounts of clans and communities, being operated by those communities. If not for poor releases it is not unreasonable to think that this model could continue on its own, and would basically mean profits for you and your business partners.

But then your workers started to get older and began loosing interest. Staff member after staff member became inactive or left until you were left with J30, Puddy, and Wolf Dog. During that time the only thing you did was keep the lights on and continue to do so, thanks for that, I suppose. I know I said to you and the other people in the staff areas that the addage "If you build it they will come" does not work here. Sure you may have agreed, but as things were falling apart you either didn't care to do anything because you didn't want to put in the effort, or, the more likely, you didn't know what needed to be done. I saw many offer their opinions and thoughts about the state of what was going on during the decline, but it was met with "NDA", ignorance, and closed doors.

It is really unfortunate that you are too stubborn to realize this. When called on it, you blame other people like the Ranger program and your "workers" who were promised to one day reap a portion of the financial benefits you had hoped to realize when you acquired the site. And yet we stand here today with an average of 3-6 unique forum member visits per day and the only thing that is important to you is your self imposed personal relationships with "industry".

Way to stick it to your community dude.


First I am going to try and not take any of this personally even though it is clearly directed at me. I will start by saying I and we because there is more than just I here know what made UF what it was, we have been a part of UF long before we took over competing here in our clan. Have we taken some wrong turns in the past, sure but that is part of the growing pains. Our staff members are fully involved with everything going on here and have been behind us completely. 

 

Just to be clear this is our current Staff: BgCntry, BigMoneyNacku, Disfsk3x14, Lifesjusajoke, Doc, Oddjob and Sierra. Both BgCntry and Sierra are active duty Coast Guard so their time has been limited as of late but Cntry has just settled into his new Alaskan Duty Station a couple of weeks ago and is getting back into full swing.

 

Your evidence of not running or being part of a clan is far from fact. Not only were John and I in the same clan together, we all split off to form a new clan down the road that we were all in until we purchased UF. We decided that to be objective we would not be in a clan that would be allowed to compete in UF anymore. Shortly after that, the clan pretty much disbanded because the other guys wanted to compete. Both clans KO and DSY/FW competed in Urgent Fury for several years.

 

The shift from Military Shooters really came from the end of the Socom era. That was the lifeblood of UF and what the existence of Urgent Fury was based on, since then no game has provided that style of play that made the TacMap really feel the way it did back in the day. We have tried to force other games into the mold and they have not quite worked. Are we done with TacMaps? No. But we have to look at every game along with the players differently.

 

Your accounting of the decline of staff is a little off and honestly it does not really matter anymore, we still have a few of our original staff a few new staff and a soon to be announced addition that has a clear direction on where we are going from here. Many of the issues were caused by disagreements among John, AC and I and it took its toll on the Staff and the site. John and I are still here we still have the original goals that we set out on and our newest addition that we will be announcing shortly not only has a clear understanding of Urgent Fury, there is a long term vested interest there.

 

I will also clear up a few other of your points such as promise of financial gain for being staff or a ranger is false. If our goal was to reap a huge financial reward, UF would have been gone long before this. We have always been upfront about want the site to be self sufficient and sure it would be great to get some of the over $40,000 or so spent doing what we have done with UF back. Our relationship with Sony benefits everyone, it may be something as simple as a free giveaway to our input in the design of a game. The whole self imposed personal relationships comment is funny, have I garnered many relationships, you bet all to benefit UF in some form or fashion. 

 

These relationships have led to endless amounts of rewards to our community such as beta access, free hardware, free games, free guides and more. If this is a bad thing then well I must be doing something wrong. I have been fortunate to be able to attend many of the events because I have the time. Doc attends these events as well and will be representing UF at PAX Prime this year as well as the PlayStation MVP program which BgCntry and I am also a part of.

 

Now if this does not sound like something you want to be a part of, we are sorry. We all talk with our community members on a regular basis in party chat on PS4 to get a feel for what they are looking for. Right now many of the clans are just not sure which game is going to fit what they want to do and we are kind of in the same boat.

 

Anyway Rant over, hope that cleared up a few things and if it didn't this is not really the thread for it as it is for Bug reports on the new software.

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Actually... when you think about all he just said... In a round about way, iridium (Pillorian) has successfully maintained the feel of the old UF by taking the role of bitchy, narcissistic drama llama.

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Out of the darkness comes Darth Sidious played by John. :biggrin:

 

Would it be possible to add a redirect in nginx for the URL: urgentfury.com/forum.php to /index ?

 

Also, it may be possible to get the same look without breaking the image/java render with something in css like this: http://css-tricks.com/frosting-glass-css-filters/ . I would imagine this would reduce server load as well (unless you are caching those rendered images).

 

I'm not sure post organization matters at this point so I'd like to reply to a few things you said, Shane.

 

As I said, there is a vast difference between DSy and clans like 101, etc. You know, perennial clans that weren't bottom feeders in tournaments. Not only did those clans have great players, they had real leadership with passionate people. I could go into more detail for you but I'm not sure you would understand those concepts.

 

If these "benefits" from Sony/Brady were really to benefit the community why are (for example) the giveaways not exclusive to members of the forum? Seems to me that you are using these giveaways more as a publicity tool as opposed to providing something for the people who actually support the community. Also, since I have been here I have never seen you reach out to the community for design input on games. 

 

Rangers were never offered financial benefits, I know this. But when I have multiple former staff telling me you promised them this, it is really hard to discount.

 

Finally, if you are no longer going for the military shooter based site, why call the site Urgent Fury when Operation Urgent Fury was a military invasion/op?

 

 

Dear, iridium (Pillorian) 

 

Great to see you and your 6 posts supporting this site and community, Doc (SamC3). Curious as to what your thoughts are of the staff sections of the site and how they are full of drama as opposed to action plans and go-getters. Sorry, forgot, NDA :biggrin:

Edited by Pillorian

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Dear, iridium (Pillorian) 

 

I find the above thumbnail offensive and according to the UF strict guidelines. It looks as if not one but two rules have been broken here.

 

There will be no open blasting of other players/clans on this forum.

There will be no displays of pornography on this forum.

 

http://www.urgentfury.com/topic/8339-strict-enforced-uf-forum-guidelines/

 

The worse part is that it's from a staff member, a person who is supose to "lead by example". Hmmm wonder where I got that from.

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Iridium, go play elsewhere, go work on your own website. Nothing you're saying here is impressive or less than completely counterproductive. Boring....

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I have moved this to its own topic since the purpose of these posts were not relevant to the original topic.

 

 

Out of the darkness comes Darth Sidious played by John. :biggrin:

 

Would it be possible to add a redirect in nginx for the URL: urgentfury.com/forum.php to /index ?

 

Also, it may be possible to get the same look without breaking the image/java render with something in css like this: http://css-tricks.com/frosting-glass-css-filters/ . I would imagine this would reduce server load as well (unless you are caching those rendered images).

 

I'm not sure post organization matters at this point so I'd like to reply to a few things you said, Shane.

 

As I said, there is a vast difference between DSy and clans like 101, etc. You know, perennial clans that weren't bottom feeders in tournaments. Not only did those clans have great players, they had real leadership with passionate people. I could go into more detail for you but I'm not sure you would understand those concepts.

 

If these "benefits" from Sony/Brady were really to benefit the community why are (for example) the giveaways not exclusive to members of the forum? Seems to me that you are using these giveaways more as a publicity tool as opposed to providing something for the people who actually support the community. Also, since I have been here I have never seen you reach out to the community for design input on games. 

 

Rangers were never offered financial benefits, I know this. But when I have multiple former staff telling me you promised them this, it is really hard to discount.

 

Finally, if you are no longer going for the military shooter based site, why call the site Urgent Fury when Operation Urgent Fury was a military invasion/op?

 

 
 

 

Great to see you and your 6 posts supporting this site and community, Doc (SamC3). Curious as to what your thoughts are of the staff sections of the site and how they are full of drama as opposed to action plans and go-getters. Sorry, forgot, NDA :biggrin:

 

Well since this has turned into an attack on my character I guess the gloves are off, the bottom feeder statement had John and I both laughing... Not to mention our clan KO has the record for the longest TacMap Territory hold out (33 + Weeks) in the history of UF. But yeah I guess that makes us bottom feeders and not to the level of the clans we beat.

 

Post organization may not matter to you but it does to us so here you go now you have your own thread... You might know that it is community members that win these contests. We opt to use PunchTab for our giveaways because yes it does reach outside of the community, why is that such a bad thing. The winners of our stream giveaways are just as much a part of the community supporting our live streams that happen close to 4 nights a week sometimes more.

 

You are right we do not reach out to the community publicly on design input, rather we include specific members that we know and trust. Generally this starts with staff.

 

Well I am glad that former staff members are feeding your fire... is there a dream goal of hiring staff on full time so that all they work on is UF, sure. But promises made, not really. Only one staff member has ever been compensated for his time and that was out of my pocket.

 

UrgentFury.com may have been born from Socom a tactical military shooter, but it has grown to include other style games like Starhawk, COD, etc. No need to go changing the name because we expanded into other genres. 

 

While Doc may not post here much, as a matter of fact he does not post much on any forums, he puts in plenty of hours into UF. As we speak he is preparing to head to PAX to represent UF and hosts weekly Streams on UF for Community Night on games like COD, PvZ GW, Destiny and such. There is much more to Urgent Fury than a Forum.

 

Ohh and the staff section Drama suddenly came to a halt when the Drama hounds left... It actually kind of nice and peaceful, but we see now that one of the Drama Hounds has returned. I would say welcome back, thinking hmm that summit post was kind of a cool idea, but it only took 48 hours after launch of the new forums for the true colors to shine through.

 

I find the above thumbnail offensive and according to the UF strict guidelines. It looks as if not one but two rules have been broken here.

 

There will be no open blasting of other players/clans on this forum.

There will be no displays of pornography on this forum.

 

http://www.urgentfury.com/topic/8339-strict-enforced-uf-forum-guidelines/

 

The worse part is that it's from a staff member, a person who is supose to "lead by example". Hmmm wonder where I got that from.

 

As far as I am concerned its time the kid gloves come off over here, this whole kinder gentler bs that was put forth has allowed the trolls to run rampant here. John, Our new Director and I agree that the staff and if need be the community should start to stand up for themselves instead of cowering for PC purposes. There is a line of course and that image did not reach it.

 

Iridium, go play elsewhere, go work on your own website. Nothing you're saying here is impressive or less than completely counterproductive. Boring....

 

Yup

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Iridium, go play elsewhere, go work on your own website. Nothing you're saying here is impressive or less than completely counterproductive. Boring....

 

Actually I already did that, successfully running, to completion, several simultaneous multiplatform tournaments. I'm looking for greater challenges in my life at this time, but thanks for the suggestion.

 

In general response:

 

I have never understood why when someone is critical of the site or individuals here that its met with strife.

 

There are things I don't agree with, I've stated those many times here in the past 5 years. I have my own opinions, is everyone going to agree with 100% of what I share? No. Because that's what they are, opinion, and everyone's got one. Certainly not. So what has allowed people to move past that stage and find common ground, then to go on and improve each others' experience? Humility.

 

I made that statement about your clan, because I knew what response I would get. You delivered as expected and this will help me explain my point.

 

My opinion of you is that you were in a average clan that never won tournaments. My opinion of your 33 week streak is that holding onto the most one sided map in Socom III, Antenora(?), can be done by any clan that has ever played here. My opinion is if that is at the top of your list, then my opinion is that it is moot. For the sake of my argument, do you know what I'm proud of? Being the only clan to sweep hell week, winning the first tournament my clan signed up for, being one of the of the only/few to win a tournament without taking a loss, owning the highest percent of territories at the half way point of a set duration tac map while also being the clan responsible for eliminating the most clans by that time as well, and having one of the in the top all-time win pct and win streaks. Does it really matter that my opinion is that I value the weight of your accomplishments less than the weight of my own? No. Do you value yours over mine, I don't know, but does that even matter, absolutely not.

 

So why is it when myself or others engage in critical discussion with you (either) you immediately respond with your chest out, flying your NDA flag, and "super secret, can't tell, coming soon". Why is it so hard for the words "well, what do you recommend we do to improve this" or "at this time we think this is the best solution, what is your thoughts? Is there a better solution?" to come off your fingers? The problem is the discussions here never gets to that point. Even if you were to listen to members of the community, suddenly things become totalitarian and you only even listen until the NDA is signed and things are on lock down.

 

"There are two kinds of people in the world, ones that make it happen and ones that are waiting for someone to make it happen for them" Shane Bell - 2011

 

Actually there are many kinds of people in this world. There are visionaries, big picture types, detail-oriented persons, there are hard workers and lazy workers, there are people who help others and people are self centered, people who can rally and people who can demoralize. You see, there is a broad spectrum of people. What actually makes a clan successful is the proper blend of those things. You need long term visionaries so you know where to go, detail oriented people to make sure things get done, you need people to rally the workers to put in the man power to accomplish your goals. This is what a clan needs to be successful.

 

Was my clan successful? No. We had too much of the lead/rally people and not enough visionaries or workers. That's what makes the active clans today a success.

 

I became a Ranger in '11 to lead and make change in an environment that was broken. It was an interesting experience going back to the archives in the Staff forums to find them filled with drama from literally YEARS before me. Threads chalk full of "oh we think so-n-so is cheating" is literally all that is in there. Going into it, I figured they would have been full of great ideas and action plans for recruiting clans and tournament plans. Not once did I read a post from Directors, Staff, Rangers (people who should fall into those categories) saying either of those two statement mentioned above. Who was leading? Who was rallying? I figured something like that would have been there. In fact, I was met with a brick wall drill instructor as "head ranger" who wouldn't allow me to do my job as a Ranger. I reached out to you Shane on several occasions about this and was basically told to sit down, so I said fuck it and left.

 

By your drama statement and what others have told me about your opinion of me, is that somehow me trying to break a few walls and begin installing those qualities was causing drama? As I said you are free to your opinion, but failing to see reality because of stubbornness is simply asinine.

 

It's been a while since I perused those forums, but I recall roughly two people before me that I found out were trying to what I was striving for. Mets and I want to say either RedOctober or Rooster (not sure, it may be neither). Both running into similar issues and ended up leaving or abandoning their efforts. It then became clear to me that everyone else in the Ranger program was there to either A) secure their position for the benefit of tournament rulings or B) to prevent the entrance of clans they did not like. My opinion is that this further exemplifies your lack of understanding of how people can come together and be successful as literally anyone who was in the club was allowed in.

 

I know at many times you had a plethora of people from various communities to choose from. Why those people were never collected to put together a group of functional people is beyond me. My opinion is that because you never had any relationship with most of the communities supporting the site, you had no idea about what anyone brought to the table. Lets say that a member of a clan left a UF clan was able to form from another clan. In the span of 2 months they held rigorous 3-week tryouts, to find only the proper players for their clan, coming out with 30+ members, complete hell week with flying colors and successfully complete their first tournament. Wouldn't the smart thing to be to keep tabs on communities doing great things like that and find out what makes them successful? Perhaps touch base with them to see if any of them would like to help promote the community they support?

 

If trying to have a conversation on these ground is so off base that it triggers a ban hammer, then I don't know what to say. I would at least hope for some potential intellectual discussion but at this point my expectations are fairly low.

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Well let me sum up why you are met with hostility... you started the conversation by attacking us... now if you would have started out with a similar posting in the summit thread that would have probably led to a completely different discussion altogether. But you opted with the standard attack with half truths, speculation, etc.

 

Instantly we are in defense mode... Honestly I really could care less about what you think of John or I. At the end of the day we are not going anywhere and certainly we will make the final decisions on things.

 

Your last post is riddled with so much false information it's not even worth breaking down to point out how little you seem to think you know. But when you are ready to start a post that actually is not intent on bashing directors, staff (past or new) or the community in some matter you are welcome to try again. Than maybe you might get some actual feedback and discussion. 

 

But as it stands your post is 10% feedback/discussion and 90% bash on UF, and quite frankly we have more important things to do than deal with all of that BS.

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Don't worry. IPB 4.0 is soon to be released in full, (it's Beta now) and everything will surely change once they perform the update :)

 

EDIT: And P.S. Shane, I've been suing IPB since 1.3 and regardless of the comments, this theme is very unique and frankly pretty fresh compared to a lot of the generic, gradient heavy, crap out there for IPB. Well done.

Edited by Dakota
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