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OBAMA OR MCCAIN WHO DO YOU CHOSE

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I am not blaming McCain for the latest Big Corporation fallouts, and the 'now-need' for the Government to try and bail them out. This post is about how for a long time, McCain and his camp has maintained that the 'Fundamentals of the US, are Sound!', and that 'We are just a bunch of whiners'. I convinces 'more' to me, of McCains 'out of touch' way of thinking.

 

I mean, 'almost everyone' can feel the pinch on the Economy, so when he says things like 'that'...it makes sense that he really does not get it (not making fun or tryin to use Obamas words, that is just my assessment, that he does not feel OUR pains and concerns.)

 

1 and 1/2 years ago, 'Donald Trump' eluded to the very catastrophe happening the the Big Corporations and Banking Institutions! So why is McCain the only one who does not know?

 

There is a Distinct Difference, to say we are 'Fundamentally Sound', and NOW (TODAY!), and 'now' McCain says, 'WE WILL NOT DO THIS "AGAIN?????" ~ He thinks things are just fine and dandy. You mean to tell me that it took the DOW Jones to drop 500 points, the unemployment rate to raise 6%, and the fact that we are before McCain changed his tune? HE IS OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE MAINSTREAM OF THIS COUNTRIES PAINS...

 

McCain is at a campaign in Jacksonville, Florida this morning. He seems to be admitting guilt, for not fighting the Bush regulations:

 

"We will never let this happen again. We will clean up Wall Street. We will reform government...This is a failure." ~ McCain has been in Washington for 26 years and hasn’t lifted a finger to reform the regulations that could’ve prevented this crisis. Regulations that he supported 70% of the time during those 26 years, and 90% on a few of Bushes policies..."

 

 

References:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqbnEx5SDw

 

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/15/mccain-mocked-for-saying-economy-still-strong/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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HogWild ]

 

So about 100 votes cast here and McCain is down by only 6, yes that is suprising to me. Plus, once you vote on the forums, you can't change your vote. How many learned something that they weren't previously aware of that may cause them to do a little more investigating and possibly change their mind? What will they learn in the next 50 days? What happens when Chicken Little... uh er I mean Obama finally has to face McCain in a debate?

Yea, 'HogWild!' ~ I was thinking 'just that' last night! The only way to 'update this', is to hold a NEW POLL. Any way we could do that?

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Haha!!! I swear you could spin Ted Kennedy's CHIPPEWA!!!! LMAO! :D

 

I think Barack Obama is going to change a whole lot of ppl's mind in that first debate with old man McCain. I predict he will have a 48% or higher lead going into the month of November.

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CritiKiL - if you're going to copy & paste.. then copy & paste ALL of it, there a few incomplete sentences/thoughts in your post. (or i am dyslexic. lol)

 

Also yes a poll where people can change their vote would be interesting.!

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Check this out:

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/obama_tried_to_stall_gis_iraq_withdrawal_129150.htm

 

"WHILE campaigning in public for a speedy withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, Sen. Barack Obama has tried in private to persuade Iraqi leaders to delay an agreement on a draw-down of the American military presence.

 

According to Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama made his demand for delay a key theme of his discussions with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad in July.

 

"He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington," Zebari said in an interview.

 

Obama insisted that Congress should be involved in negotiations on the status of US troops - and that it was in the interests of both sides not to have an agreement negotiated by the Bush administration in its "state of weakness and political confusion."

 

Though Obama claims the US presence is "illegal," he suddenly remembered that Americans troops were in Iraq within the legal framework of a UN mandate. His advice was that, rather than reach an accord with the "weakened Bush administration," Iraq should seek an extension of the UN mandate.

 

While in Iraq, Obama also tried to persuade the US commanders, including Gen. David Petraeus, to suggest a "realistic withdrawal date." They declined.

 

Obama has given Iraqis the impression that he doesn't want Iraq to appear anything like a success, let alone a victory, for America. The reason? He fears that the perception of US victory there might revive the Bush Doctrine of "pre-emptive" war - that is, removing a threat before it strikes at America.

 

Everyone take a good hard look, read the entire article, I just highlighted the really interesting stuff. A US Senator and Democratic Presidential Nominee for President is actively working to undermine the current President on foriegn relations.

 

Plus, and this is a biggie for those who serve in the military, and I know we have a few that will see this. As Commander in Chief and President of the US, Obama wants to hand over the Status Of Forces Agreement to Congress. Yes, the same Congress that has a 9% approval rating. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Ried in charge of SOFA's while they remain in office. The fact Obama intends to do this is simply inexperience showing it's self in bold neon colors.

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This sounds right on target to me? He's not undermining anything. LOL The state of Iraq is weak and fragile right now as David Patreas just said a week ago. They shouldn't do anything right now. Is this supposed to be a "gotcha moment" or something? LMAO!

 

This was an unjust war that should have NEVER been waged. Congress, WE THE PEOPLE... should have a say in this shit. He's spot on once again Hog. I know you want to go back to those 1950's good ol boy days where we just kill em' all. Those days are gone. We don't need another dumb cowboy or good solider pushing horrible foreign policy and wreaking countless relationships around the world.

 

Obama knows what he's doing and was welcomed with better arms then McCain was in Iraq. He will clean up the shit hole that Bush has created.

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Chili-Palmer ]

CritiKiL - if you're going to copy & paste.. then copy & paste ALL of it, there a few incomplete sentences/thoughts in your post. (or i am dyslexic. lol)

You're Dyslexic, I didn't copy & paste. I usualy just read & write. I 'do' copy & paste some quotes though...I think there 'is' a part that I did that was incomplete:

...and the fact that we are before McCain changed his...
I will complete that part here:

 

"and the fact that we are 'in trouble with banks and the FDIC, if you have more than 100,000.00 NOW', before..."

 

 

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WarPig, the SOFA protects our servicemembers from being prosecuted in forgien countries unjustly, and states specifically under what circumstances they can be prosecuted.

 

So you want to leave that decision up to the likes of Democratic Congressman Jack Murtha?

 

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Hog, and how is this effecting the american ppl today? Is this hurting your business right now? Are you making more and doing better then you were 8 years ago? Let's stick to shit that matters. Yes, I will leave it up to CONGRESS, who is WE THE PPL... and Jack Murtha is an ex-marine perfectly capable of doing the right thing. So, yes... I trust him.

 

With another dismal day in the stock market and are economy in a constant downward spiral into the crapper, I can't imagine one american wanting to support 4 more years of this. Johnny Mac has mirrored Bush's economic policies and even said once again today, "the fundamentals of our economy are still strong" He is so out of touch it isn't even funny. He even admitted, "The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should,†McCain said in December 2007.

 

This is the number one issue in America right now. What you say about your party that has failed miserably at this? That's the real issue Hog.

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LOL.

 

Why should I admit anything? You haven't.

 

But yea, the Bush economy isn't doing well. I guess it's the President's fault that banks loaned money to people that they shouldn't have or people bought homes they can't afford? It's not the Republican's hamstringing American industry over global warming fears. It wasn't a Republican that came up with NAFTA either.

 

The economy goes up and down. It's not the fault of the government that private businesses go out of business because they ran their company like a bunch of idiots.

 

Besides, no one has mentioned that the stock market reached record high's during the Bush years, so we can give him credit for that since what's going on now is all his fault?

 

And yes, I am making more than I did 8 years ago. Much more. I keep doing a good job and I keep getting promoted to higher positions, wierd how that works isn't it?

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Gasoline prices are hurting American's, correct?

 

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/09/democrats-offshore-drilling-plan-would-give-states-nothing

 

Even as House Democratic leaders handed Republicans a symbolic victory this week in their long fight for new offshore oil development, critics charged that the fine print in the plan probably will continue to keep drillers out of the Atlantic.

 

While lifting a 25-year federal ban on most offshore oil and natural gas drilling, the legislation would block Virginia and other coastal states from sharing in a $2.6 trillion bonanza of tax revenue expected to flow from offshore fields. A Senate bill still in the works would give states part of the money.

 

Unless states stand to profit from offshore development, they almost surely would exercise their right under the bill to block any drilling within 100 miles of their shores, critics of the House initiative charged.

 

"With no financial incentive, no state will choose to 'opt in,' " House Republican leader John A. Boehner of Ohio told reporters, "and this bill will result in little or no new American energy production."

 

Read the whole article, very interesting.

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It is the fault of POTUS. You can't have it both ways. I find it really laughable when ppl say, it's the not the fault of a president when its THEIR admin that dictates policy and enacts agendas of their making. The Bush/McCain policies have been and continue to be a dismal failure. Even Karl Rove said Johnny Mac better be careful about the lies he's passing off in his ads and speeches. KARL ROVE! LOL You know it's bad when HE from your own party is saying it! LMAO!

 

I think that's great that you doing well. I like many ppl I know have my own business. I can tell you that this economy has hurt my business and no matter of more work I try to do will create more business. It's NO fault of my making that my business is doing worse then it was 8 years ago. It lays squarely at the feet of Bush and his admin. Now I'll be fine as I too believe in making things happen and not waiting for anyone to bali me out, but it is a bad time for ppl in America. This is what will win the election for Obama/Biden. I can't wait for the first debate when Obama looks McCain in the face and says, "you are a liar!" It's what Kerry should have done in 04.

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HOg, the Dem party and Obama has no problem with drilling here. But drill with the countless deeds they already have!!! They want more land when they haven't even drilled on the land the have! Give back the deeds and tell us the plots they want to drill on. Plain and simple. They won't. They are a greedy bunch of bastards that want it all. They are sitting on leases they already have. Why won't they drill on those?

 

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/23/news/economy/oil_drilling/index.htm

 

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WARPIG ]

It is the fault of POTUS. You can't have it both ways.

 

Why not, you have. You said right here in this thread the Clinton admin had nothing to do with the lead up to the 9-11 attacks, that he had no responsibility with it at all. As a point of fact, according to you, Democrats make no mistakes at all.... evah. High gas prices, economy, bad bank loans, corrupt CEO's, world view of the US. All the fault of the republicans. ::)

 

Sounds like "responsibility" is only a republican burden to bear.

 

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Ha! Not at all. I only stated facts. The fact is 9/11 happened on Bush's watch, Not Clinton's. I have also never said that the Dems are not responsible and partially to blame for things. They are to blame also. I said the the republican run admin and Bush is responsible for the shape of the country right now mainly. There is enough blame to go around though. I will repeat, I am an independent and have no tie to any party. When I see true conservative republican party again, not this brand we've seen for the past 8 years, I might show a little more support. I have plenty of friends over at politico and here in FLA who are republicans that agree, this is not the republican party we've grown up on. Would you agree?

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HogWild ]
WARPIG ]

It is the fault of POTUS. You can't have it both ways.

 

Why not, you have. You said right here in this thread the Clinton admin had nothing to do with the lead up to the 9-11 attacks, that he had no responsibility with it at all. As a point of fact, according to you, Democrats make no mistakes at all.... evah. High gas prices, economy, bad bank loans, corrupt CEO's, world view of the US. All the fault of the republicans. ::)

 

Sounds like "responsibility" is only a republican burden to bear.

 

 

Hog, you're fixing to make me write a post longer than anything Goat himself could imagine...along with taking a whoopin, because republicans have consistently been the LARGER problem. The Dems aren't innocent for the way this country is, but more than a majority of the weight of what is wrong, sits on the shoulders of the GOP.

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HogWild ]
WARPIG ]

It is the fault of POTUS. You can't have it both ways.

 

Why not, you have. You said right here in this thread the Clinton admin had nothing to do with the lead up to the 9-11 attacks, that he had no responsibility with it at all. As a point of fact, according to you, Democrats make no mistakes at all.... evah. High gas prices, economy, bad bank loans, corrupt CEO's, world view of the US. All the fault of the republicans. ::)

 

Sounds like "responsibility" is only a republican burden to bear.

 

 

Hog, you're fixing to make me write a post longer than anything Goat himself could imagine...along with taking a whoopin, because republicans have consistently been the LARGER problem. The Dems aren't innocent for the way this country is, but more than a majority of the weight of what is wrong, sits on the shoulders of the GOP.

 

Take your best shot. I've never given the pretense that the republicans are perfect, they are far from it, that's why the lost the House and Senate majorities in the last election. They got drunk with power and forgot they were the party of ficscal conservative and was spending money like a liberal. But the fact remains that the Democratically controlled Congress has the LOWEST APPROVAL RATININGS in the history of approval ratings, but according to a few here, don't seem to have any legislative power or oversight at all. The Democrat Congress didn't seem to have a clue about what was happening to the economy BUT THEY CAN INVESTIGATE THE HELL OUT OF STEROIDS IN BASEBALL.

 

A story broke yesterday by a reputable news source, alleging Obama has attempted conduct illegal foriegn policy in Iraq, undermining a sitting US President in an attempt to gain a political advantage. But here in the forum Obama has recieved praise for possibly doing such a thing. If this is proven true against Obama, it's a violation of the Logan Act which is a felony. I'm willing to let everyone decide for themselves if it's something worth considering when they vote.

 

So roll it out Deutscher. Explain how everything is President Bush's fault and the Democrats were helpless from 2000 to 2006 to do anything. Since 2006 they have had majorities in the House and Senate, but somehow are still helpless and unable to accomplish anything and now have a 9% approval rating from the US citizens.

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You said CONGRESS are "we the people". That is laughable. They think they have our own interests at heart, but how much legislation is put through recently, that is so out of mainstream it is ridiculous. That 9% approval rating isn't some college kid street poll. It is a GALLUP Poll rating. I want congress to decide LESS things. Smaller Government. Obama doesn't offer that.

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you can laugh all you want Red. That is the way things were designed in this country. WE elect these guys to represent us. Why is that laughable? Did you prefer a more Nazi germany approach?

 

Yes the 9% you guys seem to be so proud of is because of one reason and one reason only... The Iraq war. PPL voted for the Dems to send a clear message in 06 to congress that we wanted out! Believing that the Dems would do what they said, and they have sat on their asses and done nothing. That's why they are were they sit at 9%. Should we talk about Bush's approval rating and why his is where it is? LMFAO!

 

This is what will kill McCain in the end. They are not a party of reform and they can't run away from what they have done for the last 8 years and act like they aren't the republican party and that they're this new party, not aligned with the sitting party who has screwed us so bad. NOW THAT IS LAUGHABLE!

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I am going to change my trajectory a bit here. Believe me, I love the back and forth bantering on political stances more than I probably should, but I got away from why I started in this thread in the first place. And that was to inform those interested of something they may not have been previously aware of. So let me get back to that.

 

The current theme of this thread is the economy is all President Bush's fault. I submit the following for your consideration, a New York Times article from 5 years ago, Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac were part of the subject of this news report:

 

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

 

"The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

 

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

 

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

 

The administration's proposal, which was endorsed in large part today by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, would not repeal the significant government subsidies granted to the two companies. And it does not alter the implicit guarantee that Washington will bail the companies out if they run into financial difficulty; that perception enables them to issue debt at significantly lower rates than their competitors. Nor would it remove the companies' exemptions from taxes and antifraud provisions of federal securities laws.

 

After the hearing, Representative Michael G. Oxley, chairman of the Financial Services Committee, and Senator Richard Shelby, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, announced their intention to draft legislation based on the administration's proposal. Industry executives said Congress could complete action on legislation before leaving for recess in the fall. (Just a note, Oxley and Shelby are Republicans)

 

Significant details must still be worked out before Congress can approve a bill. Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.

 

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

 

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.

 

''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said.

 

I only pulled out the pertinent and interesting part of the article, I invite all to read the whole article for themselves and make up their own mind. The truth remains, President Bush's administration saw that Fannie Mae and Freddi Mac were in trouble and tried to give more oversight, something Obama and McCain are saying they will do if elected. But President Bush was blocked by Senate and House Democrats and nothing got done.

 

So who's fault was Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac's collapse? Make up your own mind.

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Well, 'I' never blamed anyone for these collapses. I 'did' say that 'McCain' was right there and the Republicans 'did nothing' ~ being that 'The Republican Administration', was in charge for the last 6 years!

How can the Democrats be at fault for not cleaning up the complete incompetence and unrestricted spending of the Republicans for the 6 years they were in control of everything? It was the Republicans, that removed all the safeguards from the lending industry and the oversight for fannie mae and freddie mac lies with the "Executive Branch ~ THE REPUBLICANS!"

Here is a quote from George W. Bush during this time:

 

"I think the system basically is sound. I truly do. And I understand there’s a lot of nervousness, and—but the economy is growing. Productivity is high. Trade’s up. People are working. It’s not as good as we’d like, but—and to the extent that we find weakness, we’ll move. It’s one thing about this administration: we’re not afraid of making tough decisions."

 

 

REFERENCE(S):

 

THE 'TRANSCRIPT QUOTE', OF THAT CONFERENCE:

http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-bush-press-conference/

 

...It 'doesnt sound' to me, like he was against anything!:o Here, is just a 'small part' of that Transcript. BUT YOU ALL 'MUST' READ THE WHOLE THING!:

 

"Q (Mr. Hunt) : And banking — do you think the system is in trouble?

THE PRESIDENT:I think the system basically is sound, I truly do. And I understand there’s a lot of nervousness. And — but the economy is growing, productivity is high, trade is up, people are working. It’s not as good as we’d like, but — and to the extent that we find weakness, we’ll move. That’s one thing about this administration, we’re not afraid of making tough decisions. And I thought the decision that Secretary Paulson recommended on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was the right decision.

 

 

Q (Matt): Mr. President, you mentioned the latest retail sales, but they actually show a smaller boost than economists had expected from the government rebate — rebate checks. Given the latest economic data, are you still insisting that the United States is not headed for a recession? And are you willing to consider a second stimulus package if needed?

THE PRESIDENT: Matt, all I can tell you is we grew in the first quarter. I can remember holding a press conference here and that same question came about, assuming that we weren’t going to grow. But we showed growth. It’s not the growth we’d like; we’d like stronger growth. And there are some things we can do. One is wait for the stimulus package to fully kick in and not raise taxes. If the Democratic leaders had their way in Congress, they would raise taxes, which would be the absolute wrong thing to do."

 

 

 

 

 

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Bush's. ;D

 

 

 

You can't hide from these numbers. The republicans and this admin are responsible and need to answer.

 

inauguration day NOW

 

Unemployment rate 4.2% 6.1%

 

Budget $281 billion SURPLUS! $357 billion DEFICIT

 

DEBT $5.7 trillion $9.7 trillion

 

GAS $1.46 $4.00

 

 

 

It's very clear. When the republicans came into power and now since they have been in power. This is the proof that the american ppl need to be aware of when voting for this brand of republican. Period. Numbers don't lie and you can't spin this. Congress has only been dem run for two years and the repubs haven't let them pass ONE bill or agenda of the economy, so don't give me it's the dems. THIS BRAND OF REPUBLICAN IS WRONG FOR AMERICA AND WILL CONTINUE TO DESTROY OUR GREAT COUNTRY IF WE LET IT.

 

 

 

 

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WARPIG ]

Bush's. ;D

 

 

 

You can't hide from these numbers. The republicans and this admin are responsible and need to answer.

 

inauguration day NOW

 

Unemployment rate 4.2% 6.1%

 

Budget $281 billion SURPLUS! $357 billion DEFICIT

 

DEBT $5.7 trillion $9.7 trillion

 

GAS $1.46 $4.00

 

 

 

It's very clear. When the republicans came into power and now since they have been in power. This is the proof that the american ppl need to be aware of when voting for this brand of republican. Period. Numbers don't lie and you can't spin this. Congress has only been dem run for two years and the repubs haven't let them pass ONE bill or agenda of the economy, so don't give me it's the dems. THIS BRAND OF REPUBLICAN IS WRONG FOR AMERICA AND WILL CONTINUE TO DESTROY OUR GREAT COUNTRY IF WE LET IT.

 

 

 

 

 

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

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CDBS14 ]
WARPIG ]

Bush's. ;D

 

 

 

You can't hide from these numbers. The republicans and this admin are responsible and need to answer.

 

inauguration day NOW

 

Unemployment rate 4.2% 6.1%

 

Budget $281 billion SURPLUS! $357 billion DEFICIT

 

DEBT $5.7 trillion $9.7 trillion

 

GAS $1.46 $4.00

 

 

 

It's very clear. When the republicans came into power and now since they have been in power. This is the proof that the american ppl need to be aware of when voting for this brand of republican. Period. Numbers don't lie and you can't spin this. Congress has only been dem run for two years and the repubs haven't let them pass ONE bill or agenda of the economy' date=' so don't give me it's the dems. THIS BRAND OF REPUBLICAN IS WRONG FOR AMERICA AND WILL CONTINUE TO DESTROY OUR GREAT COUNTRY IF WE LET IT.

 

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Halellueja (or however it is spelled)!

 

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