OBAMA OR MCCAIN WHO DO YOU CHOSE

[Guest SuddenRedScare]

WARPIG ]

At this point, it doesn't matter to me who is president. Now a days, the so called conservatives are so far left they make Jack Kennedy look conservative and the term democrat refers to a party of socialists.

 

To me, my issues are taxes and freedom. Barack Obama threatens both and will never get my vote. His whole notion of change is all smoke and mirrors. He has promised nothing more but to tax the living hell out well deserving Americans and I will not stand for it.

 

Do yourself a favor and do a bit of research on a certain piece of legislation called the Global Poverty Act. You will be surprised at what you will find.

 

Socialism - The stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

 

 

 

 

If this were true then you would have specifically pointed out where he has said this and where in his blueprint he plans on doing this. I'll tell you what is smoke and mirrors... your posting about Obama dude. You keep making blanketed statements with no back up or links to factcheck them. You can kid around and keep yelling Socialism,Socialism!!!!!! Democrats,Democrats!!!!! all you want, But it holds zero credibility when you can't back it up. It makes you seem a bit out of touch from reality man. Try again.

 

I ask you to find one fact I "blanketed" in that post. I have no problem with liberals, but I do have a problem with socialism. Distribution of wealth is a joke in my opinion. Especially when the money brought in from taxes is going to another country. It's not fair to tax the shit out of people who works sixty five hours a week running their business while bringing in $300,000 a year. That's the only point I was trying to make with posting the link to the Global Poverty Act.

[Red0ctobeR]

WARPIG ]

At this point, it doesn't matter to me who is president. Now a days, the so called conservatives are so far left they make Jack Kennedy look conservative and the term democrat refers to a party of socialists.

 

To me, my issues are taxes and freedom. Barack Obama threatens both and will never get my vote. His whole notion of change is all smoke and mirrors. He has promised nothing more but to tax the living hell out well deserving Americans and I will not stand for it.

 

Do yourself a favor and do a bit of research on a certain piece of legislation called the Global Poverty Act. You will be surprised at what you will find.

 

Socialism - The stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

 

 

 

 

If this were true then you would have specifically pointed out where he has said this and where in his blueprint he plans on doing this. I'll tell you what is smoke and mirrors... your posting about Obama dude. You keep making blanketed statements with no back up or links to factcheck them. You can kid around and keep yelling Socialism,Socialism!!!!!! Democrats,Democrats!!!!! all you want, But it holds zero credibility when you can't back it up. It makes you seem a bit out of touch from reality man. Try again.

 

Give me something that he has done ANYTHING. You can't because he hasn't. Untested, no legislation, all he was is a great speach during the Democratic National Convention a couple of years ago.

[HogWild_101st]

From a reputable news source, some of it backed up from other reputable news sources in this very thread that I have previously posted.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHj8-HSi5AA&eurl=http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/23/video-whos-responsible-for-the-fannie-and-freddie-mess/

 

In 2005, even after being warned by the Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan in front of the appropriate Congressional hearing, all REPUBLICANS voted for regulation of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac and all DEMOCRATS voted against such regulation.

 

Why did they vote against it? So people who couldn't qualify for home loans under more RESPONSIBLE and stringent rules could borrow the money for a home they couldn't afford.

 

And now we all get to pitch in for someone else's irresponsibility.

[WARPIG]

Hog...So you make no post to mine about Phil Gram and others in the McCain staff who are mainly responsible for creating the atmosphere that lead to the current situation... and just say that I'm arguing with you? Give me a break dude. I'm calling you out... How do you make a statement that the current situation is the Democrats fault? It's just a ridiculous statement. It's not based in fact. What's even stranger is your comment on gas... Carter? Are you kidding me? You won't even explain that one?

 

Look all I'm saying is, yes... both sides are at fault here. BUT and that's a big BUT... I believe it looks like 3/4 Republicans and maybe 1/4 going to Dems. It only makes sense. You guys have been in charge for the last 8 years... Dems have only had congress for 2 years and repubs have blocked almost every bill put out by the Dems. Facts are facts Hog. I have posted plenty of "reputable stuff" here with links. You guys just don't comment on it.

 

Red, I've posted all of Obama's accomplishments twice in this thread. I"m not posting again. Figure it out on your own man. The info is out there for you.

 

Scare, "the term democrat refers to a party of socialists." Blanketed statement not based on any facts.

"To me, my issues are taxes and freedom. Barack Obama threatens both and will never get my vote. He has promised nothing more but to tax the living hell out well deserving Americans and I will not stand for it." Again... blanketed statement with no facts to it. I hope that helps.

[HogWild_101st]

WARPIG ]

Hog...So you make no post to mine about Phil Gram and others in the McCain staff who are mainly responsible for creating the atmosphere that lead to the current situation... and just say that I'm arguing with you? Give me a break dude.

 

Give me a break with playing loose and fast with history and facts. From the Investors Business Daily:

 

http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306370789279709

 

Big Government: Barack Obama and Democrats blame the historic financial turmoil on the market. But if it's dysfunctional, Democrats during the Clinton years are a prime reason for it.

 

Obama in a statement yesterday blamed the shocking new round of subprime-related bankruptcies on the free-market system, and specifically the "trickle-down" economics of the Bush administration, which he tried to gig opponent John McCain for wanting to extend.

 

But it was the Clinton administration, obsessed with multiculturalism, that dictated where mortgage lenders could lend, and originally helped create the market for the high-risk subprime loans now infecting like a retrovirus the balance sheets of many of Wall Street's most revered institutions.

 

Tough new regulations forced lenders into high-risk areas where they had no choice but to lower lending standards to make the loans that sound business practices had previously guarded against making. It was either that or face stiff government penalties.

 

The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Reinvestment Act*, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but "predatory."

 

Yes, shame on President Bush for not repealing this incredibly foolish piece of legislation while he was in office.

 

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

 

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

 

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

 

Yes, again shame on President Bush for failing to overide Congressional Democratic resistance 5 years ago to such a measure.

 

 

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-s20060525-16&bill=s109-190#sMonofilemx003Ammx002Fmmx002Fmmx002Fmhomemx002Fmgovtrackmx002Fmdatamx002Fmusmx002Fm109mx002Fmcrmx002Fms20060525-16.xmlElementm0m0m0m

 

"For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs--and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO's report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO's report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay." Senator McCain said two years ago.

 

And yes, shame shame shame on Senator McCain for not being able to sway Deomocrats in the US Senate to see things his way two years ago.

 

Now it's time for the "LOL" and how all these sources are right wing hacks. I know, I've seen this movie before.

[WARPIG]

I know you like to be a histroy revisionist but you can't use Clinton for your escape goat whenever you don't like the facts... You post reputable links of people's OPINIONS. I read every word in your post and they are all opinions of the writers. Try again.

 

The lobbying firm of the man Republicans say John McCain has chosen to begin planning a presidential transition earned more than a quarter of a million dollars this year representing Freddie Mac, one of the companies McCain blames for the nation's financial crisis.

 

Timmons & Co., whose founder and chairman emeritus is William Timmons Sr., was registered to lobby for Freddie Mac from 2000 through this month, when the federal government took over both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.

 

Any ways, this is getting boring. The american ppl have caught on and you can look at any poll out there, they all say the same thing. 2 to 1 blame the republicans and the policies of this admin for our financial woes today. So I'm very comfortable with americas' comprehension on this. They know it's not the fault of Clinton just like 9/11 isn't. This administration has failed miserable once again. The chickens HAVE come home to roost.

 

 

Most recent poll... 47 percent blamed Republicans for the current financial crisis the stock market. By contract, only 24 percent blamed the Democrats, with 20 percent saying both parties were to blame and 8 percent not blaming either party.

 

Looks like you got a lot of posting to do to change peoples mind about this.

 

 

 

[RNG187]

this thread as a whole got boring a while ago, either way, either candidate something needs to happen to get shit back to a stable environment so the gov't doesn't have to spend billions of dollars to bail us out. can we ALL agree on that? that the economy sucks b/c of bad luck/karma/superstition?

[Red0ctobeR]

That information only proves more that the people are looking for reformers in the white house. Republican or democrat alike there needs to be change. This only solidifies even more what McCain and Palin have been preaching.

Barrack doesn't offer reform he offers change. He offers a socialist agenda that requires raised taxes and more big brother sticking their hands where they don't belong.

[UNCLE-SID25]

warpig,

Since we are asking for specifics and "facts" about the candidates- Please answer this question (in small bullet points, with no copying and pasting): The Obama campaign is about "change" Give me a bullet point list of what specific items he is looking to "change" and how specifically he will implement these "changes". All I ask is that you keep it simple, short and to the point in bullet point fashion.

 

I look forward to your post and good luck.

[RNG187]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A former Army commander who underwent a sex change operation was discriminated against by the U.S. government, a federal judge ruled Friday in an important victory for transgenders claiming bias in the workplace.

 

Diane Schroer won her federal lawsuit against the Library of Congress after officials backed out of a 2005 job offer when told of her intention to become a transsexual. At the time of the job interview for a position as a senior terrorism research analyst, David Schroer was a male. He had been a onetime Army Special Forces commander.

 

U.S. District Court Judge James Robinson said Schroer's civil rights were violated.

 

"The evidence established that the Library was enthusiastic about hiring David Schroer -- until she disclosed her transsexuality," Robinson wrote. "The Library revoked the offer when it learned that a man named David intended to become, legally, culturally and physically, a woman named Diane. This was discrimination 'because of ... sex.' "

 

The judge will later rule on what financial damages Schroer is due.

 

"It is especially gratifying that the court has ruled that discriminating against someone for transitioning is illegal," said Schroer in a statement from the ACLU, which represented her in court.

 

"I knew all along that the 25 years of experience I gained defending our country didn't disappear when I transitioned, so it was hard to understand why I was being turned down for a job doing what I do best just because I'm transgender. It is tremendously gratifying to have your faith in this country, and what is fundamentally right and fair, be reaffirmed."

 

After Schroer had retired from the military, she applied for a job at the Library of Congress. Court records show that Schroer, then a male, took her future boss to lunch to outline her transition to a female, as she planned to present herself as a female on her first day of the job.

 

Schroer testified that on the day after the lunch, the job offer was rescinded, and she was told she wasn't a "good fit" for the library.

 

The ACLU said the ruling sends a "loud and clear" message to employers against firing or refusing to hire someone for changing their gender.

 

There was no immediate reaction from the library, which had claimed at trial that transgender people are not covered under federal anti-discrimination laws.

 

The case is Schroer v. Billington (Cv-05-1090)

 

and THATS why i should be president.

[WARPIG]

Sid, It's not my job once again to INFORM you. I know what Obama is about and what he has in mind for change. I've posted links 2 or 3 times here now to this effect. This is the last time I will post it. I'm not laying it out for you in bullet points and wasting time typing all night.

 

 

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[UNCLE-SID25]

Sorry Warpig, I must have missed your previus link- As I dont keep on top of this thread... But you answered my question just fine. Thanks for all the help.

[UNCLE-SID25]

I am reading the Blueprint while listening to JZ's the blueprint

 

The "blueprint is Interesting but it will take me awhile to click and read the links in the "blue print" as to HOW he plans to make this happen... So far many of his ideas I dont agree with and the ones I do agree with I cant find the HOWS... But I will look and report back here.

 

I will do the same with McCain.. That way folks that look in here can easily SEE in Bullet point style what each is wanting to change.. I mean WTF is this thread for anyways- To bitch and moan lol

 

Never mind,

After thinking about it I will just stay out of this thread.

[Guest SuddenRedScare]

WARPIG ]

Scare, "the term democrat refers to a party of socialists." Blanketed statement not based on any facts.

"To me, my issues are taxes and freedom. Barack Obama threatens both and will never get my vote. He has promised nothing more but to tax the living hell out well deserving Americans and I will not stand for it." Again... blanketed statement with no facts to it. I hope that helps.

 

I can't post a reputable link about my personal opinions, Pig. It's no secret that Obama will raise taxes and make government larger. The following post by Red offers the exact reasons for my personal opinion.

 

Red0ctobeR ]

Barrack doesn't offer reform he offers change. He offers a socialist agenda that requires raised taxes and more big brother sticking their hands where they don't belong.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[HogWild_101st]

WARPIG ]

I know you like to be a histroy revisionist

 

WarPig, you can call me a liar as many times as you like. And if you can fool anyone into voting for the candidate of your choice, then good for you. But I think anyone with half a mind can see how ashamed you are of the decisions the Democrats have made in the past concerning the economy, and can see your best arguement against those who know of those decisions is to portray them as liars.

 

Want to talk about connections to the campaigns? OK, lets start with Harold Raines. Was part of the Clinton Administration, then moved to run Fannie Mae, he cooked the books and pocketed over $100 million dollars for himself, then he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and got fired and had to pay back $25 million to avoid prosecution. ANYONE WANT TO GUESS WHO HAROLD RAINES IS WORKING FOR NOW AS A ECONOMIC ADVISOR? If you said Barrack Obama then you would be correct.

 

I have to go to work now, but when I get back from work, I'm going to spend some time talking about Obama's connections through the CAC in Chicago. Since connections seem to be so important, there's been a break through in this area that the American public hasn't been privvy to yet, and when I have more time this evening I will share with any who are interested.

[Red0ctobeR]

Lets talk about more people Barrack Obama has associated with.

 

William Ayres: (from wikipedia if you want to know more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers )

yers became involved in the New Left and the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS).[7] He rose to national prominence as an SDS leader in 1968 and 1969. As head of an SDS regional group, the "Jesse James Gang", Ayers made decisive contributions to the Weatherman orientation toward militancy.[4]

 

The group Ayers headed in Detroit, Michigan became one of the earliest gatherings of what became the Weatherman. Between the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago and the June 1969 SDS convention, Ayers became a prominent leader of the group, which arose as a result of a schism in SDS.[4]

 

"During that time his infatuation with street fighting grew and he developed a language of confrontational militancy that became more and more extreme over the year [1969]", former Weatherman member Cathy Wilkerson wrote in 2001 (who characterizes the Weathermen's activity as "craziness"). Ayers had previously become a roommate of Terry Robbins, a fellow militant who was two years younger and "came to idolize him", Wilkerson wrote. Robbins would later be killed while making a bomb.[8]

 

In June 1969, the Weatherman took control of the SDS at its national convention, where Ayers was elected "Education Secretary".[4]

 

Later in 1969, Ayers participated in planting a bomb at a statue dedicated to police casualties in the 1886 Haymarket Riot.[9] The blast broke almost 100 windows and blew pieces of the statue onto the nearby Kennedy Expressway.[10] (The statue was rebuilt and unveiled on May 4, 1970, and blown up again by other Weathermen on October 6, 1970.[11][10] Built yet again, the city posted a 24-hour police guard to prevent another blast.[10]) Ayers participated in the Days of Rage riot in Chicago in October 1969, and in December was at the "War Council" meeting in Flint, Michigan.

 

Larry Grathwohl, an FBI informant in the Weatherman group from the fall of 1969 to the spring of 1970, thought that Ayers, along with Bernardine Dohrn, were probably the two most authoritative people within the organization.[12]

 

Then lets talk about Jeremiah Wright

 

We all have heard about him. He was the leader of church he attended. Barack was a VERY active member in his church when he was a "community organizer" and into his place in the senate. Wrights views are stronlgy against the white race and preaches oppression from the pullpit as if the all white people are bad and all they have and are doing is holding the black race back.

 

I have had many friends in my life. I believe I have been molded after my parents and the people I hung out with when I was younger. The people Barrack Obama have hung out are RADICALISTS. They are severe leftists that want "CHANGE". Bill Ayers is known as the "weatherman" Bomber. He was a terrorist and leader of a militant group. Wright preaches hatred from a place of power. Teaching it as though it was gods word, to not only adults but also impressionable children.

These people have performed and spouted evil, and Obama called them freinds, even defended one and lied about his relationship with the other.

 

NO spin here, change!

[WARPIG]

Hog, I have not once called you a liar in any thread here on this board. Stop playing a victim, it's not becoming of you. I am not trying to sway anyone's vote here. Just trying to have some fun with a little debate. Quite the opposite for you and Red. Red even admitted in in one of his post. I'm an independent and if you think I'm ashamed of any decisions the Dems have made, you would have pointed that out. Once again you make statements with no substance, only accusations.

 

I'd love to talk about connections as long as you post facts and not lies. Harlod Raines was connected to Obama AT ONE TIME. Not to his campaign. I know you will try and say the Washington Post reproted it, But it's not true. Harold Raines has said this and the Obama campaign has made this clear and there is NO evidence of it. Phil Gram on the other hand is still helping Johnny. Along with 7... that's 7 of the BIGGEST lobbyist in Washington. What's that say about reform? LMAO!

 

Then we could get into the Keating 5 scandal that Johnny was a part of that igniting a major political scandal as part the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s. Hmmm, we haven't even opened that can of worms on Johnny yet. Oh, the fun that awaits us. ROFL!

 

 

Red... you are just like O'reily and those FuaxNews lackeys! LOL You think because you post 'no spin" here, that it's so? Haha!!! You have nothing but spin in your post. Jeremiah Wright doesn't spew Hate. He speaks the truth about a LOT of things in america that YOU can't handle, so you label it hate speech. Go read my blog on politico.com My profile over there is warpig. Same as here. The truth hurts sometimes. I don't agree with everything he has said, but a lot of it is true and not hate. You guys will never get what your looking for with Bill Ayers. I know you want Obama to be a terrorist, Muslim who will blow up the country... but america is smarter then that.

 

 

 

 

[Red0ctobeR]

You are the people you associate with. We have all seen wrights hate speach. And Ayers speaks for himself. And I am sorry I don't believe in reading a biased one sided blog.

[WARPIG]

Right. And you can call it all day long hate speech. Doesn't make it so. That's YOUR opinion, nothing more. America has moved on from both of these ridiculous attempts to paint Obama aligned with them.

 

Try again.

[Red0ctobeR]

Sorry already tried. I gave Obama his chance. The people I have seen him around, the lies he has told and him telling people how much to eat and what temperature their thermostat is enough for me. His economic policies are ridiculous. The people and businesses he wants to tax makes NO sense because in the end the regular joe will hurt because of it.

 

Washington is broken, Obama has not given me anything to prove that he plans on fixing it. While McCain with Palin give me hope that something CAN be done. Try to give more of these misconstrued stories about them. I have informed myself with an open mind. IT is pretty much shut at this time, which it is obvious that yours is too. I have nothing to prove to you.

[CDBS14]

wow guys calm down a bit. you sound like a bunch of pissed off red necks.

 

i think this might be a bit of a friendlier thing

 

what would you do if obama wins?

 

what would you do if macain wins?

[xRuthlessRebelx]

Jeremiah Wright speaks a lot of truths? Wow

[HogWild_101st]

OK WarPig, you tell me what you mean by "history revisionist" then. You have called me it twice, I let it go the first time and now decide to not let it go. If it's not a vieled attempt to portray what I have have said as misleading or untrue, then by all means spell it out of me.

 

Back to associations of the campaigns, since they seem to be of upmost importance.

 

Obama was chairman of a activist group in Chicago called the "Chicago Annenberg Challenge".

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212856075765367.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

 

Despite having authored two autobiographies, Barack Obama has never written about his most important executive experience. From 1995 to 1999, he led an education foundation called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC), and remained on the board until 2001. The group poured more than $100 million into the hands of community organizers and radical education activists.

 

What makes this a big deal? The founder of the CAC, William Ayers. Who is he?

 

The CAC was the brainchild of Bill Ayers, a founder of the Weather Underground in the 1960s. Among other feats, Mr. Ayers and his cohorts bombed the Pentagon, and he has never expressed regret for his actions. Barack Obama's first run for the Illinois State Senate was launched at a 1995 gathering at Mr. Ayers's home.

 

Now Obama can't control who does or does not support him. If Charlie Manson endorsed Obama, I wouldn't hold that against him, first because Obama has never met Manson, and secondly Obama has never lied about any kind of relationship he would have with such a person. Such is not the case with Ayers.

 

The CAC's basic functioning has long been known, because its annual reports, evaluations and some board minutes were public. But the Daley archive contains additional board minutes, the Collaborative minutes, and documentation on the groups that CAC funded and rejected. The Daley archives show that Mr. Obama and Mr. Ayers worked as a team to advance the CAC agenda.

 

One unsettled question is how Mr. Obama, a former community organizer fresh out of law school, could vault to the top of a new foundation? In response to my questions, the Obama campaign issued a statement saying that Mr. Ayers had nothing to do with Obama's "recruitment" to the board. The statement says Deborah Leff and Patricia Albjerg Graham (presidents of other foundations) recruited him. Yet the archives show that, along with Ms. Leff and Ms. Graham, Mr. Ayers was one of a working group of five who assembled the initial board in 1994. Mr. Ayers founded CAC and was its guiding spirit. No one would have been appointed the CAC chairman without his approval.

 

So obviously Ayers is more than just "a guy that lives in my nieghborhood" as Obama has described Ayers. How closely did they work togather?

 

The Obama campaign has cried foul when Bill Ayers comes up, claiming "guilt by association." Yet the issue here isn't guilt by association; it's guilt by participation. As CAC chairman, Mr. Obama was lending moral and financial support to Mr. Ayers and his radical circle. That is a story even if Mr. Ayers had never planted a single bomb 40 years ago.

 

 

I would suppose Obama could appoint William Ayers to some anti terrorist post in his cabinet, since Ayers has so much personal experience operating as a terrorist and subversive against the United States.

 

Do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Don't believe me, verify for yourself.

 

[Red0ctobeR]

I would honestly like to see us discredited or rebuttaled rather then say we are spinning or not telling the truth.

[WARPIG]

I have rebutted and posted plenty to counter. You refuse to see it or just don't comment on it. LOL Hog, being a history revisionist is NOT calling you a lair. All I'm saying is you like to paint reality the way you see and then post as if its fact. I know by are back and forth here that you know what I'm talking about. I do respect you. You are a smart guy, All be it a little mislead... LOL And btw you have made fun of me a couple times for using the "LOL." I'm trying to keep it light and not so serious with that. That's all.

 

Today, once again we get gimmicks from the McCain campaign. There's absolutely no reason for them to be up in congress over seeing this. They both haven't been around to vote in months and would carry no consequence. McCain is trying once again to look like he's the guy in charge. Everyone from BOTH sides has said they should still debate on Friday. It's nothing more then gimmickry at it's best. I am glad they are making a joint statement though... but they should still be debating on Friday.