Back on the OKC Pharmacist Shooting Case

[Outlaw__Rebel]

OK the argument that the defense now has is that the young robbers fired first in the pharmacy. Later a security guard found a casing under one of the drug store cases. The Casing was found about a month after the incident happened.

 

So look at the video. Does it look like to you guys that the robbers were firing that gun. It looks like at one point the kid cocked it back a couple of times. I don't know if it changes anything but it's hard to tell.

 

We talked about this months ago. The story keep evolving.

 

http://feeds.newsok.tv/services/player/bcpid4659235001?bctid=24432753001

 

Story link below...

http://newsok.com/jerome-ersland-case-has-new-twist/article/3441112?custom_click=lead_story_title

[IRISH BULL]

The alleged bullet casing is completely irrelevant really. The issue is he decided to be judge and jury when he went and executed that kid lying on the floor.

 

By his actions alone when he came back into the store, there is no way he can say he felt threatened. He was pissed and took the law into his own hands.

[Outlaw__Rebel]

The guy got Life in Prison for shooting the robber. Trial ended last week.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Outlaw__Rebel

[IRISH BULL]

The guy got Life in Prison for shooting the robber. Trial ended last week.

 

Doesn't surprise me, and I agree. He executed that kid. This ain't the wild west.

[Peebrain]

Doesn't surprise me, and I agree. He executed that kid. This ain't the wild west.

 

Says the man with the Wild West in his sig...

[Outlaw__Rebel]

This ones starting to get interesting. There's a petition out that has over 10,000 signatures so far wanting the verdict thrown out.

 

Lets think this through. Armed robbers come into your place of work. Welding guns a gun fight happens. You go from zero to scared for your life in 5 sec. How do you think rationally? Sure the guy shot the kid after the kid was down. But wouldn't you want to make sure the threat was gone. So the guy deserves Life in prison?

I don't know about that.

[BigMoneyNacku]

Yes, he does deserve life in prison. That was an execution. Plain and simple. Robber or not. Now had he went over to the kid and booted him a few times in frustration, that could have maybe been overlooked. If the kid died from the initial gunshot, it's a different story, imo.

[BIGDANIEL]

First of all, if you can't think rationally while wielding a gun you have no business owning a gun. I support the 2nd Amendment 100%. I don't support any idiot off the street being able to walk in and buy a gun without stronger safety measures being in place.

 

Secondly, in that video you posted it's obvious he was pissed. Two masked robbers run into his store and threaten him and his coworkers with a gun. But break down the video. Two masked suspects enter - one points a gun at the three employees while the second pulls gloves from his pants then moves to the right side of the gunman - the employee shoots at the two suspects (based on the suspects reactions) - the gloved suspect falls to the floor - the gunman exits the building - the employee gives chase then returns back inside within 30 seconds walks past the suspect on the floor to the back corner of his work area - the employee then walks out to the suspect on the floor and points his gun at the suspect and shoots him - the employee then walks back to the back corner and sets his gun down on the counter - the employee then walks over and picks up the phone to presumably call the police.

 

The suspect on the floor never displayed a weapon. The employee wasn't concerned about the suspect on the floor when he came back into the store and walked to the back corner. The employee walked over to the suspect, shot him, walked back over to put his gun down, and then called police.

 

He was thinking rationally. And the point to shooting someone, should it come to that, is to stop the threat. It's never to kill. Once the threat has ended the level of "deadly force" ends with it. The suspect on the floor never posed a "use of deadly force" threat to the employee.

 

He should be sentenced to prison.

[IRISH BULL]

This ones starting to get interesting. There's a petition out that has over 10,000 signatures so far wanting the verdict thrown out.

 

Lets think this through. Armed robbers come into your place of work. Welding guns a gun fight happens. You go from zero to scared for your life in 5 sec. How do you think rationally? Sure the guy shot the kid after the kid was down. But wouldn't you want to make sure the threat was gone. So the guy deserves Life in prison?

I don't know about that.

 

BD hit the nail on the head. This was not a "heat of the moment" type of thing. He was pissed, and decided, DECIDED, to execute someone.

 

If they reverse this verdict, it's basically saying your allowed to take the law into your own hands and get revenge. Revenge, not justice, revenge.

Edited June 3, 2011 by IRISH BULL

[Outlaw__Rebel]

He's a War Veteran... I think those guys have a different mentality then most. You turn on the War especially Vietnam or WWII. The kid did have a gun and fired it first. Not sure if he was moving around or not when he was down. I know I don't think I would have continued to fire on the kid. But a War veteran who has been through that hell is some what different I think. Kind of like Rambo.

[Outlaw__Rebel]

Well any War veteran doesn't matter only Vietnam or WW2. I miss spoke a little.

[IRISH BULL]

He's a War Veteran... I think those guys have a different mentality then most. You turn on the War especially Vietnam or WWII. The kid did have a gun and fired it first. Not sure if he was moving around or not when he was down. I know I don't think I would have continued to fire on the kid. But a War veteran who has been through that hell is some what different I think. Kind of like Rambo.

 

Your really not saying that being a war vet gives you more leeway than average people, are you?

 

And if this guy was all screwed up like the Rambo character, he should have been living in some shit-hole crountry like the Rambo character did after the First Blood movie. Stay away from civilized society from now on.

 

Which is why he is going away for life, we live in a civilized country.

[Outlaw__Rebel]

I'm saying someone who has been through war has a different temperament then someone who hasn't. Any especially when a fight comes to him just out of the blue.

He went into making sure those co-workers in the pharmacy was safe.

Why wouldn't there be a difference?

[BIGDANIEL]

The suspect on the ground did not display a gun on camera. He grabbed gloves from his pants. The gunman left the scene after the employee shot back. So unless the suspect on the ground pulled out a weapon and threatened the employee, he executed an unarmed person. It doesn't matter if he's a veteran or not. If anything him being a veteran means he knows better. He's been trained on shoot no shoot scenarios.

[IRISH BULL]

Yea, being vet I'm sure played a part on him being found guilty. He has training that most of the public does not ever get.

 

But let's say for argument sake, he was "protecting" the other employees as you say. He wasn't real concerned after he left a suspect in his store alone with the other employees when he chased down the other guy. That threat was gone. He should have stayed to make sure he didn't get back in. Or that the guy laying on the floor didn't get up.

 

He wasn't concerned when he walks past the kid on the floor with his back turned to him. Walks to counter, reloads, walks back with his guard down, and then executes a non-threat.

 

Protecting the other employees was never on his mind. He had one thing on his mind, revenge. And now, because of his uncontrolable anger and revenge mind set, he is going away for the rest of his life.

 

And I think your forgetting the main thing. He shot and killed the kid that never displayed a weapon. Not saying the first shoot wasn't justified, but after the actual threat was gone, again, he went too far.

[Outlaw__Rebel]

The only problem I see with that is he didn't come to work that day with I'm going to shoot a person in his mind. It happened all in about a minute. I sometimes get angry at drivers and it's usually because they do something like almost run into me. And at that split second or how ever long I may cuss at them. Then after I calm down I feel really stupid for getting that angry.

 

BD-- there was 3 other people involved. Two were Men outside in the car that talked these kids into going into the pharmacy and rob it and the 3rd the kid with the gun. Yeah the the one the got shot didn't have a gun. But the 2 men got life in prison because a murder happened during there felony and I don't know what the kid got but it was similar. It didn't matter who had a gun or who got shot.

[IRISH BULL]

The kid with the gun got charged with 1st degree murder also.

[BIGDANIEL]

You're right. When charging accomplices it doesn't matter who had a gun or who got shot. However it does matter in the case of the employee who shot an unarmed person after the reasonable fear of a threat was gone.

 

Bottom line is you can't shoot someone because you're mad. "I was mad at his buddy for shooting at me" is not a viable excuse.

[Rockman35]

Hard to completely get a good feel about what went on in that video. It looks to me like the one with the gun may have pulled the trigger based on a slight jerking motion he makes....then, to me, it looks like maybe the gun jammed and he stepped to his left and racked the slide back and moved back into his shooting position. Look very closely just before he starts to take off...looks again like a trigger jerk and either gun fired or didn't fire...hard to tell from video.

 

It then appears to me that the other robber was unarmed. Which makes me wonder why the pharmacist shot him and not the one holding the gun? Either way based on that...I think you could explain your fear of imminent personal injury or death and call that shooting justified...at that point. Now unfortunately we can't see what the suspect on the floor is doing...if anything. To me tho it completely "looks like" the pharmacist walked over and executed him..dead men tell no tales!! For that..he does belong in prison..he went from hero to zero in the blink of an eye!!

[BIGDANIEL]

I'm a firm believer in the saying, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." But, like Rock said, "hero to zero in the blink of an eye." And it's a shame too. That guy may have been a stand up guy in the community. That kid may have been a real shit head. But you can't let your emotions get the best of you and walk away clean in situations like that.

[HippieChik]

I'm going to put in my 2 cents here. If you walk into a business or home to commit armed robbery, you better be prepared for the consequences. And regardless of the pharmacist's military training, fact is, he was threatened with a gun. That's not an everyday occurrence and people will make emotional decisions. Lesson to be learned, if you don't want to be killed, don't go committing armed robberies, otherwise, you may just get a little more than you bargained for.

[Rockman35]

Hippie it certainly isn't that I don't agree with you. Unfortunately I had to look at it from a Law Enforcement perspective. Your point should be adopted by many, but won't!!

[Outlaw__Rebel]

I thought the defense was going to bring up that the robber was dead after the first shot. Not sure if that was brought up during the trial.

[BIGDANIEL]

I'm going to put in my 2 cents here. If you walk into a business or home to commit armed robbery, you better be prepared for the consequences. And regardless of the pharmacist's military training, fact is, he was threatened with a gun. That's not an everyday occurrence and people will make emotional decisions. Lesson to be learned, if you don't want to be killed, don't go committing armed robberies, otherwise, you may just get a little more than you bargained for.

 

I agree 100% with you Hippie. If you decide to take part in a crime involving a deadly weapon you run the risk of not walking away alive.

 

But, as Outlaw pointed out, the guy outside by the car was apparently involved in the robbery too, so using logic from part of your post, had the employee known he was involved he would've been justified, in some eyes, in shooting him too.

 

And he can't articulate that he feared for his safety after returning from chasing the gunman because of the video tape. No tape and he walks away. Any hack of a defense attorney could've gotten him out of any charges. But anyone watching that tape can see he's no longer in fear of great bodily harm to himself or the others in the store.

 

And it's situations like this that Anti 2nd Amendment groups love to see. It fuels their argument. We can show all day that a bad guy was killed by an armed citizen exercising his 2nd Amendment rights but they win in the end because of this guys bone head emotional reaction.

 

If you're going to carry a gun for protection, legally, take more than the necessary classes to learn when, where, and how to carry it. Learn when to use it. Learn when not to use it. And know the consequences for using it illegally. I don't want to see the 2nd Amendment get destroyed because of idiots like this.

[HippieChik]

Your point should be adopted by many, but won't!!

 

But criminals are acquitted everyday on "technicalities" to commit crime after crime after crime. They are paroled to commit crime after crime after crime. They walk free everyday to commit crime after crime after crime. They walk into a pharmacy to commit armed robbery and the pharmacist goes to jail for reacting to a situation he was FORCED into. It's a shame!

 

Good for the pharmacist! He should have pissed on the trash too.