Graphics Guru needed GTA IV

[SnowBud]

I have some questions about graphics, specifically for this game but I guess it also relates to games that are natively displayed in 720P. Just when I think I have a solid understanding of my HDTV and my PS3, I still get confused and have some questions.

 

My setup: Samsung 50'' DLP 1080P, 80GB PS3.

 

1. If a game is natively displayed in 720P, is this the best possible resolution for viewing? Even if your TV or PS3 or both can upscale to 1080P?

 

2. Anyone that is playing GTA IV right now with a similar setup which are you using? Everything that I have been reading says it just a preference, and to be honest even on my 50'' I'm not sure I can tell the difference. I can force the game to be displayed in 1080P by unchecking the 720P in the XMB. Beginning load screens look more vibrant but once the game loads I'm not sure I notice the difference. I also noticed that COD4 is like this aswell but I never tried to force that game at 1080P, I have always just went with what my PS3 and TV auto-detected.

 

So what is everyone in the community using for their setup with their 1080P sets. Are you using the native 720P or up-scaling to 1080P and thoughts????

 

Also what are your custom setting in game, ex Brightness, Contrast, Saturation? I found the defaults to be off a bit myself.

 

TIA

[[-VR-] Tool_Minion]

I dont know. ;D

[SnowBud]

Damnit Tool Figure it out for me already lol

[CritiKiL]

-SnowBud- ]

I have some questions about graphics, specifically for this game but I guess it also relates to games that are natively displayed in 720P. Just when I think I have a solid understanding of my HDTV and my PS3, I still get confused and have some questions.

 

My setup: Samsung 50'' DLP 1080P, 80GB PS3.

 

1. If a game is natively displayed in 720P, is this the best possible resolution for viewing? Even if your TV or PS3 or both can upscale to 1080P?

 

2. Anyone that is playing GTA IV right now with a similar setup which are you using? Everything that I have been reading says it just a preference, and to be honest even on my 50'' I'm not sure I can tell the difference. I can force the game to be displayed in 1080P by unchecking the 720P in the XMB. Beginning load screens look more vibrant but once the game loads I'm not sure I notice the difference. I also noticed that COD4 is like this aswell but I never tried to force that game at 1080P, I have always just went with what my PS3 and TV auto-detected.

 

So what is everyone in the community using for their setup with their 1080P sets. Are you using the native 720P or up-scaling to 1080P and thoughts????

 

Also what are your custom setting in game, ex Brightness, Contrast, Saturation? I found the defaults to be off a bit myself.

 

TIA

 

Ok, there is 'nothing wrong' with your setup:

 

1. "Your 'input' is your 'output'", which means that the maximum resolution you can get out, is what you put in. No games have been made higher than 720p, so 'that' is what you're gonna see.

 

2. When you 'force' your HDTV to 1080p, it will only just go back to whatever your input resolution is capable of. This is 'why you dont see any difference' because the HDTV switched back to the inputs resolution.

 

When you watch a Blu-ray or any Television Broadcast (that is 'Broadcast', in HD!), then you will see the 'TRUE POWER'...of your investment!. Also, 1080p just came out, and ALL HD-BROADCASTS are 'only' in 1080i (at the moment!), which has been done for 3 years or so. You will see the 1080p, if any of your inputs (blue-ray movies), are recorded in that format.

 

Hope this helps to keep you from 'frying your brain' on the matter ~ lmao...you're just fine!

 

 

 

[SnowBud]

CritiKiL ]

 

Ok, there is 'nothing wrong' with your setup:

 

1. "Your 'input' is your 'output'", which means that the maximum resolution you can get out, is what you put in. No games have been made higher than 720p, so 'that' is what you're gonna see.

 

2. When you 'force' your HDTV to 1080p, it will only just go back to whatever your input resolution is capable of. This is 'why you dont see any difference' because the HDTV switched back to the inputs resolution.

 

When you watch a Blu-ray or any Television Broadcast (that is 'Broadcast', in HD!), then you will see the 'TRUE POWER'...of your investment!. Also, 1080p just came out, and ALL HD-BROADCASTS are 'only' in 1080i (at the moment!), which has been done for 3 years or so. You will see the 1080p, if any of your inputs (blue-ray movies), are recorded in that format.

 

Hope this helps to keep you from 'frying your brain' on the matter ~ lmao...you're just fine!

 

 

 

 

TY

 

I so when I manually uncheck 720P and 1080i in the XMB, your telling me that it's still only displaying 720P even though it shows and tells me that its 1080P? I thought that it upscaled it to from its native 720P to 1080P, not true 1080P but upscaled.

[[-VR-] Tool_Minion]

I still don't know. ;D

 

 

JK, the upscaling is simply stretching the pixels to emcompass your entire viewing area. It is NOT higher resolution at all.

 

Now thats not to say that I know what I'm talking about, but that is the way I understand it.

[CritiKiL]

-SnowBud- ]

 

TY

 

I so when I manually uncheck 720P and 1080i in the XMB, your telling me that it's still only displaying 720P even though it shows and tells me that its 1080P? I thought that it upscaled it to from its native 720P to 1080P, not true 1080P but upscaled.

OK (lol), I tried to give make it seem simple, but you are not new to this! Heres the actuality:

 

It 'does' upcovert, but it is not much better than that 720p signal is. You will never get 'much more' than what the input signal puts in, even though your HDTV will upconvert...the upconverting won't be noticed. This is why you don't see much of any difference between the 720p, and the 'forced' upconvert. Your HDTV is only stretching each pixel, to fit 'its screen'.

 

My HDTV 'knows the difference', so if I try to 'force it', it only puts it back to the best resolution of the input.

 

 

 

 

 

[GOAT]

Fricking rookies.... LOL!

 

 

High-def broadcasts are done in either 1080i or 720p, and there's r no chance they'll jump to 1080p any time soon because of bandwidth issues. Even the so called high-def games on the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 are usually 720p native though they can be upscaled to 1080i or 1080p in the user settings of those consoles. Really, the only commercially available way to get true 1080p output--aside from hooking your PC to your HDTV--is to get Blu-ray. All Blu-ray players and some high-end HD DVD models support 1080p output, and--more importantly--the are natively encoded at 1080p. .

 

So yes the game is native 720p (actually 768p) but that doesn’t roll off the tongue as well.. running P vs I is more important since progressive scan will convey all the lines of resolution in a single pass.. much more efficient. As far as if you choose to upscale it or not.. that’s totally up to your personal view of things…

 

Lastly Contrast up 100%, Back light up 100% Brightness Roughly 75% but it depends if the game itself as a brightness setting.. typically you want to have brightness as low as possible and then bring it up to where you like it.

 

Color and tint should remain defaulted at 50% Sharpness as well..

 

Color temp.. usually I use Cool, but warm works well for some games…

 

Dynamic contrast.. if you turn it on than you may have to bring the brightness up a bit..

 

Full white and full RBG.. yes turn them both on if your TV is capable.

 

That should do it…

 

[SnowBud]

Ok, I see

 

Ya I'm not a A/V noob, but I get confused and with all the reading I have been doing it was becoming more confusing lol Probably just confusing myself more than needed.

 

So is the general consensus that playing the game in it's native resolution is the better of the two options visually?

[[-VR-] Tool_Minion]

I told you. ;D

[SnowBud]

TY Goat!!!!

 

Screw you Tool!!!

 

Thanks Kill!!

 

and I guess thanks Tool

 

 

So its all really personal preference as far as upscaling, I will mess with those settings tonight Goat, thanks again.

[GOAT]

Yes i use native for all games.. with the exception of COD4, which I prefer to upscale to 1080p.. it just looks better on my set.. but for other games such as RBV2 it doesn't.

 

Typically use 720p as your native res.. for games. that's what the are encoded at and your Ps3 won't work as hard displaying having to upscale it.

 

Also, yeah the guy at "Least Cry" lied... you can save big bucks if you won't be using your High def TV for a PC hook up nor do you have a blu ray player and plan on buying blu ray disk... if you don't than there is NO REASON whatsoever to purchase the MORE HIGHER COST 1080p native tv's since 720p is just fine and a hell of lot less expensive.

[SnowBud]

Gotcha, I have never tried it before on COD, I will try it tonight and see if I notice a difference. My Blu Ray player is my PS3 and I have around 12 Blu Ray movies. They look great btw. I have had the set for almost a year now and have loved every minute of it. I feel ya on the salesman thing, I just like to buy the newest latest greatest toys lol And I since I bought the tv and the ps3 at the same time I thought I would be getting the Blu Ray benefit.

 

Thanks again for the input everyone

[CritiKiL]

Goat: Where the 'Hell' were you, when "I" needed help 3 years ago? ~ lmao You guys are better than the Salesguys at the places where we buy this stuff! ;D My advice to 'anyone wanting the newest gadgets, etc'...is to read up on it 'yourself' call up 'GOAT' ~ j/k'ing (seriously, I mean to ask some people who already know about it), because the salesguys are only out to get your money. They 'do not' have your best interests, at heart...

 

 

 

[SnowBud]

Goats our resident A/V guru ;D

[UNCLE-SID25]

What makes a game "native" then? On the PS3 GTA4 it lists 720p, 1080 AND 1080p all as aupported HD outputs. This is specicfic for the PS3 since it is in blue ray format. So my question for the goat is WHAT MAKES IT NATIVE 720 IF IT DIRECTLY SUPPORTS 1080P?

 

Thanks,

US25

[SnowBud]

Sid my understanding is that not only this game but almost all graphically intense PS3 games are created to run in 720P thus its native resolution. A couple PS3 games are mastered in true 1080P, but not many. However since your PS3 can upscale 720P resolutions to 1080i or 1080P you can trick your PS3 into bypassing the native resolution which it picks up automatically by modifying your display settings in the XMB. This is also true with COD4. Maybe Goat or someone else can give you a reason that most games aren't being mastered in 1080P yet, but this is my understanding of it all, I could be wrong.

[CritiKiL]

I'm still waiting for Goats response as well, but this is what I know:

 

..."GTA 4 Will Run 720p, 1080i and 1080p. Its on the back of the Box"...

 

There is a difference, between 'running at those resolutions' (output), and being 'mastered in a certain resolution' (native='what the game looks best at, since it is encoded at its native resolution').

 

GTA IV is 'actually mastered' in 640p (which is just as good as 720p, its "native" resolution!), which means it will always look better in 720p output format.

 

Check the article: http://www.ripten.com/2008/04/29/confirmed-gta-iv-ps3-is-not-630pits-640p/

 

If your HDTV is capable of running all 3 formats (720p, 1080i and 1080p), "and that game supports all 3!..." then the game will 'run' on any of the 3, but the latter two will be 'upscaled to fit' and won't look much better than the 'native 720p' of the game.

 

Here, is an article that explains the 'deceptions and mis-perceptions' of what the back of the boxes say and actually mean:

 

http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20070929/4832/

 

Here is a list, of all games which have a 1080p native resolution:

 

http://www.makeyougohmm.com/ps3-1080p-games/

 

 

 

[BigMoneyNacku]

CritiKiL ]

I'm still waiting for Goats response as well, but this is what I know:

 

..."GTA 4 Will Run 720p, 1080i and 1080p. Its on the back of the Box"...

 

There is a difference, between 'running at those resolutions' (output), and being 'mastered in a certain resolution' (native='what the game looks best at, since it is encoded at its native resolution').

 

GTA IV is 'actually mastered' in 640p (which is just as good as 720p, its "native" resolution!), which means it will always look better in 720p output format.

 

Check the article: http://www.ripten.com/2008/04/29/confirmed-gta-iv-ps3-is-not-630pits-640p/

 

If your HDTV is capable of running all 3 formats (720p, 1080i and 1080p), "and that game supports all 3!..." then the game will 'run' on any of the 3, but the latter two will be 'upscaled to fit' and won't look much better than the 'native 720p' of the game.

 

Here, is an article that explains the 'deceptions and mis-perceptions' of what the back of the boxes say and actually mean:

 

http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20070929/4832/

 

Here is a list, of all games which have a 1080p native resolution:

 

http://www.makeyougohmm.com/ps3-1080p-games/

 

This is my last post on the subject. Hope all of this helps out ???

 

 

 

Well now I'm even more confused. At the end of that list you linked to it says this:

 

Notes

- All titles have been checked as being 1080p compatible firsthand by the back of the game box and/or by owning/playing the game at 1080p resolution. Unlike what is happening on the Xbox 360 game boxes, Sony doesn’t advertise 1080p on the back of game boxes unless it is a truly native 1080p title. A good example of this is the game Warhawk where in the Playstation Store they say it scales “up to 1080p†not that it is native 1080p. The Xbox 360 list of games advertised on game boxes is longer, but there are a small few number of native 1080p titles on the Xbox 360.

- games denoted by [ps] are sold via the PlayStation Store

- corrections or additions to the list? Leave your comments here

- you can find a list of Xbox 360 1080p games here.

 

 

So, is that guy wrong in his statement? ???

[CritiKiL]

BigMoneyNacku ]...Well now I'm even more confused. At the end of that list you linked to it says this:

 

Notes

- All titles have been checked as being 1080p compatible firsthand by the back of the game box and/or by owning/playing the game at 1080p resolution. Unlike what is happening on the Xbox 360 game boxes, Sony doesn’t advertise 1080p on the back of game boxes unless it is a truly native 1080p title...

So, is that guy wrong in his statement ????

 

(concerning 'this link: http://www.makeyougohmm.com/ps3-1080p-games/)

 

No, he is saying what I'm saying...that the PS3 games (in that list!) are confirmed at 1080p 'native', either by it saying "NATIVE 1080p" (on the back of the box), or by the fact that it has been played and confirmed as true 1080p.

 

NOTE: It is, 'whats on the back of the boxes'...that is confusing or being misunderstood:

 

a) If it says the game is 'native 1080p' (on the back of the box 'keyword='native'), then it is.

If it only says that it 'supports 1080p', then it is not native 1080p, but it will play on tv's that have 1080p capability.

 

This "should be" ~ lmao!...my last post on the subject. Hope all of this helps out ???

 

 

 

 

[BigMoneyNacku]

So far so good. ;D

[GOAT]

A history lesson in High res…

 

It all started with the line doubler… or Lie Dubya

 

“line doubler is to take an interlaced video source which consists of a two-field frame and create a progressive scan (single non-interlaced frame) output. This produces a brighter, smoother high resolution picture. The additional lines provide greater light output and makes for an image that is smoother and more film like.†From Wiki

 

They went high tech when some engineer came up with video scaling..

 

“A video scaler is an algorithmic processing device for converting video signals between one arbitrary resolution/aspect-ratio and another resolution/aspect-ratio. In their most common application they are "up scaling" or "up converting", This does not necessarily mean that the picture becomes clearer/more detailed - as scalars in their simplest form only increase the sample points for the original signal resulting in more data points for the original given information. ….Confusion is caused within the general public, due to how little is understood about video scalers. Manufacturers of digital displays don’t tell customers that there is a simple video scaler built into their display which accepts a video signal and converts it to what the display is expecting.†From Wiki

 

and just so you know what native resolution is..

 

“The “native resolution†of a display, is how many physical pixels make up each row and column of the visible area on the display’s output surface. Since not every video signal in use in the world is exactly the same resolution (and neither are all of the displays), some form of resolution change (video scaling) is required†From Wiki

 

Why should any of you care? Because what we are talking about here is MONEY!! As usual spending more doesn’t necessarily get you more…

 

 

I’m looking at a way to LINE Double a UPscaled 1080p native resolution.. I’m thinking I could get a 4360p res. out of it… yeah that’s the ticket..