Question: How do you know when a clan is "TOO" big?

[neo-x]

I figured this would be a great discussion on this fine day...

 

Ive had the pleasure of being part of clans of many shapes and sizes. From small, close knit, to medium size, to very large.. Each offering their own pros and cons.

 

At the beginning of my Clan gaming career, I started off with a clan that was roughly 5 rosters large.. but totally unorganized, so you cant really even call that a clan in todays standards, but none the less.. we were a clan.

 

Logistically its difficult managing that many people, and back then we didnt have a website or forums, so you can imagine the chaos.

 

 

After that I went to a smaller, more organized clan.. but still.. of the members we had there was limited forum usage.. so alot of stuff didnt always get communicated. But the single biggest memory that I took from this experience, was that because we were a smaller group, we all knew each other very very well, and called each other regularly, adn socialized outside the game often. We considered each other family, and were in tune with all of those things you'd go through in life.. i.e. anniversaries, marriages, babies, deaths, etc...

 

 

My most major recent experience was being a part of a rather large clan (though now it doesnt even seem that big in retro spect next to mega clans like [<+>] ).

 

Militant Structure - Check

Tons of different ranks - check

Many different jobs with in those ranks - check

 

I mean we had a boat load of titles, and positions, and overwatching, and oversight, etc..

 

 

It got so big, that It took on a life of its own and after a while became a difficult thing to tame... and when you empower too many people, all those opinions are bound to get you in trouble one way or another.

 

 

I find the dynamic of a clan to be extremely intersting, and not currently being in a clan I can truly see just how much time, and energy I spent with my clan.

 

I remember one day being at work, i stepped outside to have a "phone conference" with the upper echelon of the clan to discuss a very memorable "incident" involving a certain "video" depicting "TOW" as "HITLER". (lets just leave that one there)

 

But think about that.. Im at work, getting paid to install some equipment at an office, and I go on a 25 min tangent about how we're going to handle it, etc, etc, etc..

 

 

The degree of involvment had really reach a point where I was just overwhelmed..

 

 

 

So... in closing...

 

 

Is your clan too big?

 

Are you suffering from the growing pains that all clans go through while trying to increase their numbers?

 

Is your clan small, and you've struggled for years to grow, but just cant seem to? and if so.. are you considering a merger?

 

 

 

Bottom line, if you can have a core group of leaders who are opinionated, but not stubborn, who are supportive, but not vindictive, I think you can have great success. Roster , and personnel count management are vital to the success of a good clan.

 

 

Skill in game should come secondary to anything that a clan would like to achieve.. one should strive foremost to grow significant relationships with the core members, so that you CAN go through the tough times.. cuz lets face it.. its not a matter of if the tough times will come, its a matter of when.

 

 

</rant>

 

[Crusty_Demons]

Wow great post a lot of good advice in there. I definitely want to cap our roster there is no reason to have 4 or 5 rosters IMO. I can see wanting to be that big and want to take over the world but IMO it's just to much.

[DK_MaluNYMets]

Pretty Deep stuff. Leadership is what makes a clan strive... I have members in my clan who have been leaders of other clans.. they don't need the title they want to work together with a team and not stress out about a clan.. and have fun.. Its not about recruiting just anyone its welcoming some one into your family away from family. Some where along the way a lot of clans have forgot about having fun... its not all about winning.. yeah you win a tournament.. your the champion.. what now? You lose the next year? Half your clan leaves because you suck now? Where is the fun? Where is the loyalty? Where is the im coming back from work to have fun? Now its man I can't go out tonight I got my second job I have to attend to which is worse then my first job LOL.

[Chili327]

Yes my 1st Big clan experience was in Socom 2.. A 5 roster nightmare, too many chiefs.!! (it was a merging of 3 clans)

 

Eventually we broke off and called ourselves The Renegades, which was fitting for obvious reasons..

 

But ever since i broke off with that core group of guys, i have played with them ever since in many different games (even in switching to Xbox360), I still have about 5+ guys from that original clan that broke off of the monster in Socom 2.!! There is something to be said about having a tight knit core group.

 

I used to freshen it up for every new release of socom, so i would change the name of the clan, swap out some of the baggage for new blood, etc..

 

But now that my clan is not a one game clan, but a system wide clan it is all about what game you are currently playing..

We compete in only one game, but play in many.!!

 

Some of my clan mates don't even own the game we compete in, they are just old school clan mates that don't want to leave, & I don't want to lose. We still play in other games. (they are more of the social bunch)

 

We are small, and not the most organized (i wish i could get them to check in on the forums more often), but also we know each other pretty damn well.!!

 

I would NEVER join another multi-roster monster clan with more than about 50 members.. it isn't a clan anymore, it's a community.

Which can be cool too, but you have to have major trust, & competent leaders of the groups within.

 

Number one reason GB clans don't last, they only care about winning, not their clan or camaraderie. (comrades. lol)

 

We are always recruiting, but only recruiting people we want, & are a good fit.

NOT people that want in & might be a good fit.

 

 

Mets did you just say "Its not about recruiting just anyone"..!?

[DK_MaluNYMets]

Yeah man.. lol.. Other then XBOX I got to say I knew every member in the clan till the whole recent xbox merger... But thats our European Division. Other then that all our members are actually people that we know in real life or friends of friends or family of friends. Heck we have tons of our wives and girl friends playing the game. I first started my own clan in 6 years ago and I still have a lot of members in the Knights that I knew from back then.. and the rest of the majority is people that I have met on the way and other leaders have met or known combined together. I've learned so much from being in clans and I've seen people that I played with now also being successful in life from being part of clans and gaming.

 

At the end of the day big clan or small clan. If you don't have the right people or leaders the clan is going to fail. You can have the smallest clan in the world but a dick head leader that clan is a fail.. have the biggest clan in the world but its not organized or you have idiots then its crap. Big or small if you have a structured environment... have fun.. bond with each other.. its a recipe for success. All I see now a days is division.. and various clans inside of clans.. and drama.. a clan takes a step in the right direction they get shot down as another thread shown us recently. Come on. Just play the game.. you can't get along with people on a freaking video game?

[neo-x]

Longevity is always key as well.. hell, I havent played with the guy in forever, but I still chat on aim, and occasionally on phone with my clan leader from like 3 clans ago.. just cuz we're still good friends...

 

[DK_MaluNYMets]

Longevity is always key as well.. hell, I havent played with the guy in forever, but I still chat on aim, and occasionally on phone with my clan leader from like 3 clans ago.. just cuz we're still good friends...

 

 

Hell. One reason I left Hollow Ground was guys who I played with for years were going to be booted for being inactive for having a life lol. Like come on. Like Chilli said we have a lot of casual members that play with us here and there but we have built relationships with them that we aren't going to forget and we want to continue. Heck more then half the people in my cell phone I've never met in real life lol.

[BigMoneyNacku]

We started off breaking from a 10-15 roster clan. It was madness. Since then we've kept a core group of about 20 and have recruited slowly. We are technically capping the clan at 50, but we have an inactive roster. It's for anyone who doesn't want to play competitive or have life stuff come up. We are all friends, most of us talk to one another every day.

 

I personally think 40-65 is about perfect. You always have guys that aren't going to be playing. We all have lives and shit happens. I believe our group of about 50 right now is just as tight knit group as when we were 20 deep. Only now we aren't scrambling for extra shooters every war.

[DK_MaluNYMets]

We have a 48 limit on each of our games. I think thats perfect for everyone to know everybody. Once you start getting anything over that on one game it gets hectic. I can't imagine how a 600 person clan operates on one game lol.

[neo-x]

MaluNYMets ]

Heck more then half the people in my cell phone I've never met in real life lol.

 

 

 

LOL, I know right... haha

[neo-x]

you know whats awesome is games like WoW have like giant "GUILDS" but since its all online, you can literally manage the entire thing from your pc...

 

I dont play the game, but have a relative who is a very hardcore WoW player.. plays for a top 10 US guild...

 

It would be interesting to see alot of those statistical / analytical tools come to play in game / forum/ clan management and intergration..

 

I know its a bit extreme, but still would be cool.. I hope mag has some cool built in clan management stuff other than just color, clan tag, and patch..

[Chili327]

MaluNYMets ]

Heck more then half the people in my cell phone I've never met in real life lol.

 

 

 

LOL' date=' I know right... haha

[/quote']I was about to say the same thing lmao

 

 

And as far as the clan stuff on the internet.. its ALL coming.!!

I guarantee it.

 

 

 

 

[UNCLE-SID25]

Anything over 60 is too many IMO. I believe at our highest point we had 47 active members... We now only have 25 that play different games...

 

We dont have a "power house clan", the "largest roster clan" "highest ranked clan"... But what we do have is a tag that has remained the same since socom2 and a strong core of gunners that have stuck together for over 6 years... Its fun as hell and we know it (+30) will always be there... Cause we aint getn any younger lol

[HighTimesSW]

Our clan has a tentative policy that we will not go over the game limit for a clan roster, we are never recruiting but always welcome a good fit.

 

We have an organized council that takes care of a lot, but Our Leader has the last say in any matter, we just support and provide feed back. I agree that the first step to a good clan is leadership.

 

As for inactivity, we keep an "in-active" roster so when people are ready to return from their lives they can.

 

I have run my own clan since Socom 1, and this is the 2nd clan I have been in that I did not run the show. The other clan I was in that I did not lead was M3 Elite Mercenaries, and that leader is also now in Team Players. There are people in this clan I have played with for 8 years, I grew up with them, I have seen marriages, businesses succeed, children born, you name it. -Not too shabby for a couple hours of free time gaming here and there.

 

This is why I can play an incomplete game and love it, it is about who you play with, not what you play that makes the game fun.

 

Personally, I feel that the success of a clan is dependent on every member and it all begins with the recruiting process. If all the members you let in have the same great qualities then you could essentially have a limit less roster ands till succeed, although these people are tough to find they seem to keep showing up at our door step, usually from clans that we played before liking what they saw.

 

Lead by example.

 

[Chili327]

HIGH_TIMESsw ]

 

This is why I can play an incomplete game and love it' date=' it is about who you play with, not what you play that makes the game fun.

[/quote']Imagine having your whole clan on the same page, & playing a complete game.!!

It is great.

[BigMoneyNacku]

Chili-Palmer ]

HIGH_TIMESsw ]

 

This is why I can play an incomplete game and love it' date=' it is about who you play with, not what you play that makes the game fun.

[/quote']Imagine having your whole clan on the same page, & playing a complete game.!!

It is great.

 

Don't be gay.

[CDBS14]

OHH MAN i remember when i used to be in clans with over 200 people lol.

 

COD1-ESP we had like 150 people.

BF2- Young guns, more people than can be counted over 400 for sure.

BF2142- no bullshit clan, lol. We had like 200.

 

But these were PC clans and literally had members come and go every 2 days, leadership was weak and divided, and these clans dont even exist anymore really, as far as i know ESP disbanded and NoBs is now a server hosting clan.

 

Large clans are hard to manage, once you get over 50 members it gets hard to keep control, there are always members who want more power and want to be leaders.

 

Our clan is recent (one year), we have gone through 2 different leadership changes several mass migrations of people leaving the clan.

 

But in my opinion and what our clan's philosophy is to play for fun and make friends, we are not really strict about who joins.

[lX-OSCEOLA-Xl]

I am not a fan of clan mergers.

 

 

 

IMO anything over the 30 member range is a little much. Everyone should know everyone, after about 30 I would say clicks start forming.

[DK_Deadly_Intent]

basically we are a family of gamers. anyone is welcome to join that wants be part of that family. we just ask people to be respectful to each other. we run a total of 8-10 games in our clan. we realize we can't be on them all so we have a structured chain of command that gives our games real leadership. We are also Lucky to have a group of people in our core Leadership that all gets along and is open to change. if you have the right people it can work. We dont let bad attitudes ruin it for everyone, we have kick players for being nothing but a pain. dont let a few ruin it for everyone.