Is Socom Still Socom?! Or are we just too stubborn to kick an old habit.

[neo-x]

Ive been pondering this for a while now, and It really got me thinking.

 

The Socom franchise has been around for quite a while now, and its brought us countless hours of joy, but lets face it.

 

Socom is merely the venue that we use to catch up and "shoot the shit" with our online buddies.

 

Had socom not been the game that brought us together, we probably wouldn't play it as often as we do, but since all of our friends are playing it, we continue to play it amidst, all the lag, glitching, brokenness of the game(not just referring to confrontation, but rather all socom games collectively)

 

 

When Call of Duty MW first came out, there was a mass exodus away from socom towards that game. Everyone was blown away by the game, and alot of clans were really tested, since it divided alot of clans between PS2, and PS3.

 

But at the end of the day, people kept saying... Its fun but "ITS NOT SOCOM". Well of course its not socom, its an entirely different game.

 

All of us socom heads continue to search for the socom experience, but why? Socom really isn't the THAT GOOD of a shooter.

 

It WAS an awesome shooter at first, but lets face it.. most people will tell you that the best socom was Socom 2 (which again.. is heavily flawed in terms of in game mechanics, glitches, etc.. ) but it had the biggest Fun Factor.

 

That was years ago...

 

Today I visit a forum of people who still love the game socom, even though its heavily broken.

 

There are so many options as far as shooter go, that are more stable, better looking, and more pleasant than socom, but we socom junkies continue to play the game.

 

I mean take the guy from Socom is dead. All that complaining, but he still plays it doesnt he? WHY!?!

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying everyone should stop playing socom, but I think we play socom out of mere habit, than actual desire to play the game.

 

Maybe I just bitching.. maybe I'm just bitter cuz Slant six destroyed socom.... or maybe I actually have a point.

 

 

Socom is NOT the same socom we once knew... the only reason it kind of looks the same is because we're playing it with alot of the same people that we've been playing with for years. Thats what is familiar..

 

The game... well... think back on ALL of the years we've been playing socom, and all the complaining that we've done.. think about it. Socom is NOT that good of a game.. it really isn't. Socom had its glory days.. but they, IMO are gone now, and its time for bigger, better, and more innovative shooters to take the spot light.

 

Modern warfare won game of the year quite deservedly. They worked hard, and delivered a game that was Solid, stable, and stunning. Not to mention all the other intersting shooters out there.. such as GOW, Rainbow 6 Vegas , KZ2, hell even MGO was pretty good, and innovative.

 

 

I cant even fathom another company's attempt at releasing another socom after confrontation.

 

Im not looking to piss anyone off, I'm looking to have a civil debate about the game socom..

 

So...

 

the floor is open.

 

Discuss..

[sharkbait2]

I had never played a socom until I decided to buy confrontation, maybe that was my first mistake. After playing it for a while, I realized that CoD was still the dominant game (before kz2 was even out) and that socom needed to do some work to attract new gamers. I didn't have a problem with 3rd person, but there just wasnt enough for me. I like fast paced games because I love the thrill and excitement of not know what is going to happen next. I guess I would rather play an SnD in call of duty and go 11-5 than play a team deathmatch in socom and go 4-2. There just wasn't enough action for me along with the cheaper feeling graphics to continue playing it

[neo-x]

Yeah, u make valid points..

 

For the record, I've been a socomer since socom 2, so im not pulling my views out of thin air.

 

I've endured many a socom headache, and enjoyment.

 

While I agree with the action is fun part of your comment.. Socom did provide edge of your seat experiences which some clans can attest to..

 

Like the famous 3 hr , 26 round war between Stormwatch vs A Perfect Circle (now Ravenfall) that was awesome.. But that type of thing was rare.

 

 

[inadub]

Socom FTW... we all just have to high of hopes... now w/ that being said.. Slant 6 is making a valid effort at what we all love... and due to what most feel was a marketing mistake.. the game came our early and was highly problematic. My question is.. why is this still being drug through the mud? I hear what you are saying.. and yea even i dont play like i used to.. however we are all older and more responsible for the most part. Shit i started playing socom damn near day one or Socom launch. During Socom 2 i had to leave a war early to go watch my first and only son be born. Life as i knew it changed immediately. Personally i am glad socom has its blunders right now.. for i might be to involved to pay attention to my family.. so for that i suppose i am grateful. It sounds funny but i bet most of you have similar situations.. new job, new girl, etc..

 

Realistically the game is slowly panning out to what it once was.. and i really have very little problems with how the game plays.. There are a few things.. like inconsistencies of nades.. or some of the lag spikes.. but other then that the game plays pretty damn well if you ask me. Its lack of maps that keeps me and my guys from being on nightly. If there were 10 new maps and the 3 old maps.. i probably would be divorced and not even typing this.. for i would be trying to learn all of the new maps and perfect my game play on them. One can only hope that the new DLC thats being rumored will yield us some new maps. Thats the ticket if you ask me... new maps will make this game more of a success then it currently is.

 

Also you mentioned the long wars too and how rare that is.. really its the format of the wars and game modes that i think effects the outcome of that. 503 has had some real nail biters that have lasted up to 3 hours as well.. 3 maps of course though too. In fact just recently 503 has been really wanting to return to a 3 map format for fun... that might also be why this game doesn't feel like the old.. most wars are now 1 map. At least in most competition that stands true. Anyways.. thats Dubs take on the new socom ... its a lot of fun.. and yea i agree.. most people are simply getting on to shoot it up w/ their buds.. but that was the original reason we all got on as well.. lets hear other suggestions on why it doesnt feel the same to you? I like the evolution for the most part but what dont you guys like about it??

[HighTimesSW]

Yes Socom is still socom,

 

First Argument: Socom wouldn't be socom if people didn't bitch about it. Yes people even bitched about everyone’s favourite game, socom 2 (hard to believe now).

 

Second Argument: When people say, this game (any shooter) just isn't socom, it’s because the experience is fun for a while yeah, but there isn’t that tactical edge, we find in Socom (which all instalments delivered)

The map set ups, Third Person is Key to the fell of the game; it is arguably the most important feature.

 

Third Argument: Fast paced exciting action is awesome I liked COD (which also had tons of issues, i.e. joining parties), but it gets old, when 99% of the time you spawn and toss 4 nades and die. Where is the strategy in holding down the trigger and tossing nades 1000 times? There’s a reason respawn in played by newbs in socom, because you learn to get better so you don't sit and watch people play for 5 minutes. None of the FPS can hold your entertainment long enough not to have respawn. You can't set up a strategy since the guy you just killed knows where you are, which is why using skype, aim, whatever is cheating.

 

Fourth argument why socom is still socom: Every instalment of socom, and I repeat EVERY one of the games had, lag, glitches and was arguable incomplete. The only difference between zipper and slant six, is they actually inform the community and put out patches. Which zipper rarely to never did unless they wanted to make $6 bucks a map pack.

 

I am not gonna bring up all the improvements over the old games, you should pop socom 1, 2, 3/CA into your PS3 and check for yourself. Every instalment of socom improved in some way. But its true, no game on the market is giving you the Socom experience (except Confrontation).

 

Your friends in the game are a big part of it, but it is the strategy, the competitiveness, you know that your skill earned you a kill and not a mash of trigger happy grenade tossing randomness.

 

Until a non respawn TPS comes out that can actually give you the Real socom experience, the real fans of socom will continue to come back. You don't quit socomcrack, you only take breaks.

 

That's my argument to why socom is still socom.

 

 

 

 

[Prime-VR]

I think we are all just stubborn. I for one HATED the pace of CoD4. Socom isn't that fast paced no matter how much you rush. Even with the new running. Still doesn't have the fast pace that CoD had/has.

 

The reason I'm stubborn might be because of what the other shooters use to be. I for one only played Socom on my PS2. I played sports games but the main reason for my PS2 was Socom2-CA. So I just haven't been able to totally give up on it yet.

 

The thing so far I miss the most is wars like the one Neo posted. Those are the wars that made this game what it was. Everyone just moving slow... Taking the one shot needed to win.. I never once felt the edge of my seat in a war on CoD4. I can't say that this Socom had totally brought that back either. :'(

 

 

 

[[-VR-] Tool_Minion]

For me, the Horseman tourney offered the most tense situations for Socom. For the first RONIN, COD moved PLENTY slow enough for me.

 

That's all I got.

[DK_MaluNYMets]

I also think we are stubborn. Honestly I started "online" gaming on Socom 2. My next online game was Socom 3 and the one after that was Socom Combined Assault. The first time I picked up another online game was when I got xbox and Halo to play with buddies from work and church and I love it. Playing a game with amazing graphics. But you know what? Socom was still fun. I was not only good at the game but also had tons of friends who I played with playing it. Then Modern Warfare came along and changed everything. I was NEVER into the COD Series I thought the game sucked boy was I wrong. The game play.. the graphics.. the adrenaline can not be matched. But I still missed socom and was waiting the months.. days.. hours. mins for the beta to come out... after playing the beta I hated it but still thought oh wait Socom the actual game will fix all the problems. BUT it didn't. I went from a level headed gamer to a guy who is stressed out all over a stupid game named socom. Shooting people in the back.. flying all over the place.. The one game where if you have a bad connection you are God. I finally saw the light and officially switched back to Call of Duty. This time World at War. I still played it but that as much as socom. Now after playing every day for the past month. I feel rejuvenated. Less stressed. Once again a happy gamer. Like socom use to be. I never bitched about the old socom only when there were glitchers. Slant 6 ruined a game. All they had to do to win me over was just change the Graphics and get rid of the glitchers. I could careless about any of the other bullshit. I feel stressed right now and angry at the people who ruined a game for me that I love. By the way most of the guys I know who I played with for years on socom are mostly all on COD now. Figure that.

The franchise is done especially if we continue this slow paced camping era. Honestly I'm not starting arguments but new gamers the ones that will be making money for this gaming companies and systems mostly want to play a fast paced game. I see the young ones in my clan they ALL run and gun and they are some of the best gamers out there not only on socom but other games as well. I guess we are just getting old and can't let go of the past of a time that everything was golden for us. But the reality is we are gaming in next generation not our past generation.

[Guest CplKoontz]

Neo,

 

gonna have to disagree wit hya... Socom is thee, i repeat THEE best shooter game on the market.

 

I have been playing socom since it first came out, and while Confrontation has pissed me off and they still have some work to do, it is starting to become like the true socom, and if Slant Six can pull it off, and I dont know, it may be better than Socom 2(yes I said it)

 

Since I have been playing I have seen a few nailbiters. Like being down 4-3, only on man left on our team against 4 on the opposing, and he is able to hunt them down(tactically) and give us the win on the round.

 

Or how about those Horseman tourney? i heard it was awsome, and very very intense.

 

I cant stand COD, i have 4 and world at war...

 

I play cod 4 barely ever, and only play COD waw when I want to take out some zombies.

 

IMO socom is still the top shooter on the market.

[COWonCRACK]

i ahve and always will love socom.

yes, i have to admit, i dont play it like i used to. i miss those days where i would be up till 2 or three in the morning playing socom. i just dont feel like doin that very often on this one.

 

BUT the big difference for me between socom and COD is that i can enjoy the socom public rooms, COD i couldnt enjoy myself unless i was in a private room. cod just seemed to mindless for me, to easy to be good at. so for the time being i am completely content and happy with socom, because i rarely see super awsome major lag anymore.

[Xx-CHURCHY-xX]

MaluNYMets ]

The franchise is done especially if we continue this slow paced camping era. Honestly I'm not starting arguments but new gamers the ones that will be making money for this gaming companies and systems mostly want to play a fast paced game. I see the young ones in my clan they ALL run and gun and they are some of the best gamers out there not only on socom but other games as well. I guess we are just getting old and can't let go of the past of a time that everything was golden for us. But the reality is we are gaming in next generation not our past generation.

But then you're forgetting about the 15' date='000 people who play Confrontation every night, along with the thousands that play Socom 2 and Combined Assault still (whether it's because they hate PS3 or just can't afford it). But Socom isn't the only example. There are tens of thousands of people that play Metal Gear Online daily and it's just like Socom in it's pace. It's a very slow paced game and I have played with people that were EXTREMELY tactical, even more than Socom players. Yes, the majority of players DO play fast paced games, run and gun style, but it doesn't mean that it's the end of the "slow paced camping era". I've played with people on COD that sit back, camp, play tactically and take their time. Just because COD is game where you run out and kill everyone doesn't mean people don't play it slow. I don't think the "slow paced camping era" is done in anyway. Maybe you just don't happen to come across the players I'm talking about, but there are tons of people in EVERY online game that take things slow. It doesn't matter if it's the fastest paced shooter in the world.. there is always that base of people that will slow things down. This is why I don't think Socom will die. It doesn't have the support that it used to, I'll admit that. People have grown to hate the game without ever looking at the positives of the game. It has gotten drastically better than it was in the Beta, but people are too stupid to realize it. Socom is a franchise that will forever have those 15,000 people who will get on daily, despite all it's issues and problems.

 

BTW: I didn't read anyone's post in this thread because they're all too long.. I just saw the yellow that Malu put and it caught my attention

[Guest REBORNevilloki]

I think we will all be put to the test when November comes and High expectation games like MAG, Operation FLASHPOINT 2 and COD6MW2 come out. I have been playing since SOCOM part one never been a fan of 1st person shooters but slowly it's catching my attention I guess due to it being forced upon us all. If major improvements aren't made before these games mentioned above are out it might mean the death of SOCOM no matter what or how we feel. That's if a new SOCOM comes out of nowhere and gives us what we truly desire in this game.

[Outlaw__Rebel]

I sell you a Refrigerator for your Beer with a big Socom Sticker on it for $60.

It only comes with one shelf and sometimes it turns off. But I promise you that I will fix the problems and bring you the rest of the shelves. And one day I came over and brought you another small shelf and I included a UF Sticker and UF pop sickles. You call and ask for the shelfs and I say there being tested to make sure they don't out.

 

Do you buy a Refrigerator from me again?

And should you go buy another one that works?

 

[[-VR-] Tool_Minion]

I sell you a Refrigerator for your Beer with a big Socom Sticker on it for $60.

It only comes with one shelf and sometimes it turns off. But I promise you that I will fix the problems and bring you the rest of the shelves. And one day I came over and brought you another small shelf and I included a UF Sticker and UF pop sickles. You call and ask for the shelfs and I say there being tested to make sure they don't out.

 

Do you buy a Refrigerator from me again?

And should you go buy another one that works?

 

 

Depends. Are you gonna CHARGE me for the shelves that should have come with it in the first place?

[Outlaw__Rebel]

They're going to come with the door handle I'm going to charge your for. The door handle has a Socom Sticker on it "you'll love it".

[COWonCRACK]

im about 90% sure that Socom has been the only playstation shooter thats been considered being picked up by CEVO(cyber evolution, its where you go to become, and play, professionals... aka guys who get sponsored and paid to play, another one is CAL or cyber athletic league). which is saying alot, because playstation just isnt in the LAN market. the only other game on playstation to make it to CEVO is rockband or guitar hero, i cant remember which one.

[BigMoneyNacku]

I didn't read every post either, and Churchy slapped Malu already for his statement. ;D

 

 

I still feel Socom is socom because it's still the only game on the market that keeps me coming back for more. I love the slower and more tactical pace. Playing COD and all those games never gave me that rush. All you old schoolers know what I'm talking about. That I think I'm having a heart attack feeling in a long evenly matched war.

 

The camping argument is completely redundant. We've played every clan UF has to offer now(except some of the recent Hell Week applicants), and none of them "camp". They all hold back the first round to gauge what thier opponent is doing and adjust accorrdingly. It's called strategy. I still haven't found a game that relies on having a good strategy as much as socom. There was that one TC game that was 2 v 2 online, but it died out. That was the closest game to Socom I've encountered.

 

For me it boils down to teamwork. ANY other shooter out there, maps can be won by 1 guy. GOW, KZ, COD, RB6, all of them, I've watched one great RNG shooter dominate the entire map and win it for thier team. That just doesn't happen on Socom. One guy might win a round against huge odds, but no way do they do it for the whole map. In Socom, you are only as good as your team, period.

 

 

Until someone makes a game that re-creates that atmosphere, Socom will be my game of choice.

[DK_MaluNYMets]

Xx-CHURCHY-xX ]

MaluNYMets ]

The franchise is done especially if we continue this slow paced camping era. Honestly I'm not starting arguments but new gamers the ones that will be making money for this gaming companies and systems mostly want to play a fast paced game. I see the young ones in my clan they ALL run and gun and they are some of the best gamers out there not only on socom but other games as well. I guess we are just getting old and can't let go of the past of a time that everything was golden for us. But the reality is we are gaming in next generation not our past generation.

But then you're forgetting about the 15' date='000 people who play Confrontation every night, along with the thousands that play Socom 2 and Combined Assault still (whether it's because they hate PS3 or just can't afford it). But Socom isn't the only example. There are tens of thousands of people that play Metal Gear Online daily and it's just like Socom in it's pace. It's a very slow paced game and I have played with people that were EXTREMELY tactical, even more than Socom players. Yes, the majority of players DO play fast paced games, run and gun style, but it doesn't mean that it's the end of the "slow paced camping era". I've played with people on COD that sit back, camp, play tactically and take their time. Just because COD is game where you run out and kill everyone doesn't mean people don't play it slow. I don't think the "slow paced camping era" is done in anyway. Maybe you just don't happen to come across the players I'm talking about, but there are tons of people in EVERY online game that take things slow. It doesn't matter if it's the fastest paced shooter in the world.. there is always that base of people that will slow things down. This is why I don't think Socom will die. It doesn't have the support that it used to, I'll admit that. People have grown to hate the game without ever looking at the positives of the game. It has gotten drastically better than it was in the Beta, but people are too stupid to realize it. Socom is a franchise that will forever have those 15,000 people who will get on daily, despite all it's issues and problems.

 

BTW: I didn't read anyone's post in this thread because they're all too long.. I just saw the yellow that Malu put and it caught my attention

 

I understand what your saying but you got to understand 15,000 is nothing compared to the "new era" games or even call of duty has on one night. Hundreds of thousands of people. Socom Combined ASsault use to have those type of numbers but the newer one to reach out to new generation doesn't. Coming back to the point pure statistics show the decline in the franchise of members who actually grew up on the game like myself others thousands of others who have left the franchise in search of a current generation based game. Also I am sorry I made a mistake I meant slow paced as in action wise.

 

By the way looking at the argument that COD is too easy. Explain to me how guys who suck at COD who couldn't host rooms because their connection were horrible are amazing at socom lol.

[SgtJoeFriday]

Whatever dudes. FPS Suck! I Hate them and they sometimes make me nauseous. You have a limited range of view and you can't turn and look around well.

 

SOCOM is why I'm here. How I found this community and the friends I now have. When I play other games it's full of douche bags and thugs. Despite the ones we find in SOCOM as a rule I still play with more decent people.

 

Slant Six despite their protests to the contrary, botched it. They blame Sony on making a console to hard to develop for and Sony not maintaining their servers properly. They "fixed" what wasn't broken. The changes they've made to the franchise we love were not necessary. And on top of it they screwed em up and they don't work anyway.

 

We, at least I, am holding out hope that the newest patch IS what they promise it to be. Each patch, while problematic has made the game better. Lets hope the BIGGEST patch makes the BIGGEST improvement.

I can bet that whether they succeed or fail I'll still be playing.

 

I know I'll be dabbling in other games and may even find one I like A LOT better, but I'll still play SOCOM.

[CDBS14]

COWonCRACK ]

im about 90% sure that Socom has been the only playstation shooter thats been considered being picked up by CEVO(cyber evolution, its where you go to become, and play, professionals... aka guys who get sponsored and paid to play, another one is CAL or cyber athletic league). which is saying alot, because playstation just isnt in the LAN market. the only other game on playstation to make it to CEVO is rockband or guitar hero, i cant remember which one.

 

i think MGO is part of CEVO, dont quote me on that though. Because those tournaments are heavily PC dominated.

[Hellraiser]

the reason Socom is Socom and every other game isnt is because of>>>>>>>>>>>>. RESPAWN.

 

that's it.

 

make a CoD Hman tournament with no respawn and you'll have the same tense action..

 

i prefer FPS shooters why.

 

aim is way better.. i mean some complain that it's not realistic enough.. BS.. when i fire with a M14, M4 or an AK... are you telling me that you can just move sideways to avoid getting killed??? Fuck that man.. it's quick draw what we need... first one to shoot gets the kill, there shoudlnt be two guys right in front of each other shooting their ass off. to get a kill you have to reload and shoot the guy again??? or even worse you have the drop on someone and the other guy turns around and gets a headshot WTF?

 

third person = hardcore camping.. 95% of the times you'll pass a edge, or a door and there's someone behind it you will get killed. why?? cause you can see the whole place while you are three feet away from the edge.. in FPS you have to stick your head out, if you're going to camp you have to do it properly and you can only see the guy if you actually stick your head out and peek. there's is no hiding behind a wall and watching the entire map making call outs but no one can see you cause the wall is 8 feet tall and 6 wide.

 

nade fest??? dont BS, me come one the only reason why this game isnt as hard of a nade fest as FPS is cause of the respawn ( which is like unlimited ammo) and the fact that nades are so hard to throw and so unreliable. but still how many of you guys have gotten your ass handed by a nade when moving on Xroad up to the fish market stairs to the bell tower??

 

same shit..

 

anyways go to go.

[[<+>] bleachrulez]

Sgt.JoeFriday ]

Whatever dudes. FPS Suck! I Hate them and they sometimes make me nauseous. You have a limited range of view and you can't turn and look around well.

 

 

 

on socom you got to much view, being able to see over objects is a joke.

[PACKERNUT-]

I'll tell ya what Horseman was one of the best SOCOM experiences ever and as long as the lag was kept in check it was all the socom I could ever remember.

 

Last night [KoH] had a war with [sxB] and I think both sides had crazy SOCOM feeling fun. The maps were intensely fought especialy Crossroads. That last Crossrads match gave me such a SOCOM 2 feel I thought I had a PS2 in front of me.

 

THATS WHY I STILL PLAY THIS GAME

[neo-x]

its interesting to see how the argument turned into..

 

COD is an FPS, and FPS's suck..

 

COD is Respawn, and Respawns suck

 

COD is Fast paced, and Socom is slow and steady.

 

 

With the exception of the First person shooter fact, both games have the option to play respawn or not, and both games have the option to be fast paced or not.

 

I dont think its a fair argument to state that Call of Duty is not as Tactical as Socom in, when in reality is, if you want to have any success at winning at say Search and Destroy, you must be tactical, and communicate effectively with your team members...

 

That of course also applies to socom. You have to use team work to win.

 

Ive played both Socom, and COD MW and there's been many a time, when I just blaze by a corner doing the good ol "run and gun" and get owned by someone camping in a freakin poorly lit corner.

 

 

If Socom is: Teamwork, Lag, nonstellar graphics, good times with your clan, 3rd person shooter, and tactful, then ok.. I'll agree w/ that statement.

 

BUT

 

In exchange for say Third person view, you get cool shit like in Rainbow 6, how you can post up on a wall behind cover, and pop out to fire a shot, or blind fire if you'd like. You can rappel, and other "tactical manuevers". In gears of war, you can dive , roll, run, and all sorts of other tactical maneuvers, also 3rd person. In Modern warfare, you get perks, which some people might call "unrealistic". To that i'll say, let me see you try and run around with a .50 cal Barret, and fire it while standing up (BTW, the Sea Snipers actually did fire the barret while standing up... check their site for more info on that.. lol)

 

 

I hear the arguments, and they're all valid, but they all have a counter point to them as well. I strongly feel that the Socom community as a whole has grown up on mediocrity.. but again thats just me.. perhaps im bitter.

 

 

Oh, and one last thing

 

HIGH_TIMESsw ]

Third Argument: Fast paced exciting action is awesome I liked COD (which also had tons of issues' date=' i.e. joining parties), but it gets old, when 99% of the time you spawn and toss 4 nades and die. Where is the strategy in holding down the trigger and tossing nades 1000 times? There’s a reason respawn in played by newbs in socom, because you learn to get better so you don't sit and watch people play for 5 minutes. None of the FPS can hold your entertainment long enough not to have respawn. You can't set up a strategy since the guy you just killed knows where you are, which is why using skype, aim, whatever is cheating.

 

Ok, seriously... All I gotta say to the words in red is Desert Glory, Frost Fire, Citadel all GRENADE ORGY MAPS.

[UNCLE-SID25]

Lets just put it this way- If they (zipper) made a socom 4 on the PS2- I would go buy another ps2 tonight.

 

I say (IMO) socom is on par with all other shooters out on the PS3 ATM (not because of graphics and/ or tactics or function, but because of the reasons we like socom- clans, people, maps etc).

 

Most games have their own kick ass perks as to why we like to play them... I am just waiting for a fuckn game to come out that takes the best of COD, socom and killzone, put them into a modern day shooter and that will be the game I play... Until someone puts a game like that out on the next gen system- I think we are all getting a little cheated IMO.